TastefullyPeenedIronWorks Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 I was encouraged to start a new thread so…here we go! I recently purchased a coal forge as I want to being the process of transitioning off of propane over the next few years. She is huge 43” x 32” x 32” (overall dimensions) 8” x 10” (fire pot) In regards to clean up I intend to : -soak what I can in evapo-rust -wire brush with angle grinder -hit the rough outer edges of the bed with a flap disk -redrill the holes for mounting/reattaching the clinker breaker and ash vent - paint the outside underside and legs (at this time) prime and paint with rustoleum -I am considering, once the coal bed is rust free, painting a few layers of Satanite over it, is this wise? Should I do something else entirely? Or change my plan of attack? -hood will need replacing, it’s pretty rusted through in some areas If there is something I absolutely should not do, please let me know! The bed is marked 41-42, I am guessing it’s manufacture date? I want to preserve history and bring it back to life, not ruin it irrevocably The blower looks like toast, maybe good for parts down the line? It’s missing a big chunk and is seized pretty well. I have restored a blower in the past, we will see what comes to fruition. in the last 2 pictures, to the left of and slightly behind the blower, is an arm that bolts to the belly of the forge and holds the blower. Has anyone ever seen a beast like this? What are ya’lls thoughts on this beast and what I can/should NOT do to bring it back to life? Love, Peace, and chicken grease! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Actually, except for the restoration of the blower it looks like it is pretty much plug and play kit. I would add fireclay to the bottom of the pan up to the level of the fire pot. Something like Satanite is not needed since that area will not be subjected to high heat. The purpose of claying a cast iron forge pan is to insulate it a bit from thermal shock since the cast iron is brittle. If you are careful about avoiding substantial temperature changes the clay can be optional. A substantial change scenario would be when the temperature in your shop is 0 or -10 degrees F. and you build a big, hot fire in the firepot while the pan is still cold. In that extereme scenario I'm not sure clay would help much. The photos don't show the damage to the hood but it looks like a good design to me. If it were mine I would try to resore the hood with sheet metal and pop or tinner's rivets. Is it a Lancaster blower? It looks like it too me. Even if it is frozen you may be able to get it running with TLC and soaking it in a 50/50 mixture of automatic transmission fluid and acetone which works better than most commercial penetrating oils. Just be gentle with force since the case is cast iron too. I have seen some blowers which looked pretty hopeless turn into really well running machines. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastefullyPeenedIronWorks Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 George! Thank you for the siege advice. I don’t know if it’s quite ready to just start running but it is darn close. I agree, perhaps, once the rust is off the bed, refractory mixed and poured would add a good layer of both heat resistance and durability. The hood definitely had a few minor holes/cracks that I’m sure smoke and all those good gases will seep out through. It’s funny that you mention tinners rivets, kinda looks like that is what is holding the hood together currently, lol. Is there a recommended gauge of sheet for the hood? Obviously I don’t want something too flimsy. I know it will need to be big enough to handle the draft and I would think the one on there is a good reference but, without running it, I can’t really know for certain. It is a Lancaster blower! I know I can get it moving, ATF is what I used to gently lubricate the gears in the last one I brought back to life. I think the killer is the multiple cracks in the gear housing, the air connect, and the mount for the arm to the forge. I can get more pictures up soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Far as painting it, I would use an automotive exhaust paint. VHT Flameproof is one I have used many times. It has the added benefit of holding up to heat and doesn't require a primer. Probably wouldn't last too long in the fire pot itself but for the rest of it. Nice forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastefullyPeenedIronWorks Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 Daswulf, Never heard of the stuff but I am positive, just by the name, I’ll be solid with that, I have Zero intention of painting the inside of the pot but I’m thinking a good coat of that stuff on the underside now and again wouldn’t hurt any…Any time you are in Bucks County, PA you have a cold beer and some hot iron waiting. The First 2 pictures are the broken blower, the second 2 are what I intend to replace it with. I’ll need to find an adjustable speed 1hp motor to run the blower but, everything in its time and place, no use getting too far ahead of myself. I can’t imagine running this monster on a hand crank, no thank you. As a note, the pipe diameter on the broken Lancaster is 3inch. The Sanderson is 3.5inch. I am wondering if at least lining the firepot with satanite is wise for overall longevity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 What size blower is that champion? I might have a spare inner housing part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 NO, do NOT pour refractory into the forge pan! Just mix 1 pt common clay, any will do to 3-4 pts sand or crushed brick. (Grog) ONLY add just enough moisture so it will pack hard, I use a wooden mallet or the end of a 2x4. The sand/grog allows it to expand and contract with temperature changes. If it were bonded to the forge pan as a mortar is it can't do anything but break up, the mortar and cast iron have different rates of expansion they WILL just pull apart or the weaker will break up. By clay, just pick something from a ditch or mud puddle that shrink checks as it dries. The shrink checking is why you do NOT want to mix mud to line the forge, it WILL shrink check as it dries, it's what clay does. By only adding JUST enough moisture it will pack hard, the escaping moisture doesn't leave voids as it dries. The cohesion between particles drawing them together is what causes checking. If you have a mud puddle that's almost dry say you can squeeze some into a lump or maybe stomp a heal track in it, mix sand/grog in with a rake, if it becomes too dry to clump moisten it with a spritz bottle, NOT THE HOSE!! There's nothing fancy about claying a forge pan. The clay distributes heat to a larger area than direct fire contact so localized expansion doesn't "heat check" (CRACK) the pan. That is only a distinction from what George said, he's not wrong, the clay distributes heat more evenly by being a low end insulator. It may sound like a technical detail but it counts. It's why using an insulating refractory doesn't improve things any. I think that's it for now, Billy knows more about blower innards than I do and I don't know the particulars of how your forge goes together. Once you get it moving freely that blower will work just fine with a 1/3hp motor you aren't going to be doing really BIG steel in it are you? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 I line my forges with free red dirt clay off the side of the road and it seems to work good an it’s pretty durable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastefullyPeenedIronWorks Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 Twistedwillow, I will pm you soon with some dimensions and we can discuss further. frosty, thank you! I just got up from a night shift and this is all very good information. I don’t intend on doing it in the next week or two, I plan on really laying this all out before tackling it, so much of this is new and unfamiliar water for me. That being said, I do have very minor experience with coal. I have a lot of reading to do and than it’s all hands on. I do intend on doing “larger” stock but that is a relative term. I would like to get into some hammer making and ultimately, would like to start doing grills, grates, doorways, railings. I want it all! I wanna learn it all!!! Fire and Metal and hitting things with hammers! Lol what is the work life of a clayed forge pan, usually? 3-5 years before relining? I’m just taking a guess, I really don’t have any clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 The working life of . . . . DIRT?!? !!! Oh stop, STOP my side hurts! Sorry, I have serious trouble resisting a good straight line. A rammed clay pan liner is a sacrificial barrier you replace as necessary, sometimes one session, sometimes a season. The project effects it too, if you're making watch fobs and bottle openers it may last a long time, forging hammer heads from bar stock, not so long. If it's very rainy it's good to shovel it out and keep it in a plastic bucket so it doesn't turn to mud and accelerate rusting the pan. I ram it hard with a mallet or whatever's at hand so I don't scrape loose clay into the fire, I have acquaintances that might pat it down with their hands. Personal preference goes a long LONG way in the craft. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 My forges set outside in the weather an a little wash’s off during really bad storms but for the most part once it’s cooked hard it holds up pretty good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 In my home made forge, I lined it with fire clay 20+ years ago and it is still fine. The forge is inside the shop out of the weather though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastefullyPeenedIronWorks Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share Posted July 23, 2022 I want to move this thing inside, as long as my wife doesn’t mind another whole in the garage lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 Sure no problem, wives are understanding like that. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 I gotta keep all my smithy junk over by my repair shop, im allowed to have as many forges as I want as long as they don’t spill over into the yard lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 The problem isn’t keeping my forging stuff in the shop, it’s keeping her stuff out of the shop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 I ceded her the house and the studio and built my shop and keep it locked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 i would do 2 things, then use it. Get a good mechanical blower (Champion 400 14") and raise the firepot with fireclay so that both steel rests are in line. Then you will be able to support your hot iron everywhere but whats in the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 If you don't have a pottery supply near to get fire clay, you can make a clay, that will serve just as well. Pick up some cheap unscented kitty litter and a bag of builders sand. Mix it about 3 sand to 1 kitty litter. dampen it and let it sit a day or two. Then like making bread kneed it and add water a little at a time until it is mixed and very stiff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastefullyPeenedIronWorks Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share Posted July 23, 2022 All you guys crack me up, I’m dying here. Definitely need the steel rests level and in line, I agree. My wife barely steps into the forge, she’s super cool about it, I’m so darn lucky. I honestly wasn’t sure if fire clay acted as a sacrificial barrier much like kaowool and refractory when welding and using borax. I think I understand more… Stupid is as stupid does, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Hey, lighten up on folks, they need more breaks than someone smart enough to ask questions when they don't know something. Almost any concrete batch plant or gravel supply will carry fire clay. It's pretty standard for making fire places, pits, etc. Of course a 50 lb. sack will last through you're grandchildren's forge builds. I clayed my pan forge with a 3lb. coffee can of sand and a couple cups of fire clay. I bought it probably 40 years ago and have gone through maybe 1/4 of the sack. The cheap clay kitty litter is bentonite clay which is a very high fire clay but it's a sticky mess that takes forever to dry if you get it too moist. Look up "drill mud" and see, or better still, check out the mud wrestlers. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 I would avoid bentonite if possible because it absorbs water and expands considerably. This is why it is used in drilling mud and why it is BAD to built a house on high bentonite soil. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 You don't need but a small fraction of bentonite to do what fire clay will, say a tbsp of bentonite as opposed to a cup of fire clay in the same quantity of sand. Still some other clay is easier to use and preferable. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 I use white vinegar to remove rust. Soak anything rusty in it as it works better than anything I have found. Just rinse it off and dry. Fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 And oil or finish immediately as it will flash rust ASAP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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