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New Ribbon Burner do I have a problem?


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Newbie here.

I built a new forge with a ribbon burner burner is 8" x 4" with 20 each 5/16" holes fed by a 2" supply pipe. I read most guys run at 1 PSI Propane for forging and 5-7 for forge welding.

I cranked up the forge last night to see what pressure I could get, I never even registered 1 PSI when it started choking due to to much fuel. 

the gas supply is 1/4" pipe and the air fuel mixer is a 1/4" 90 elbow in the 2" supply pipe. I am wondering if I will never get those pressured due to the large orifice size of the gas supply or if my blower is not adequate.

I do not actually know what my temps are I guess I need to crank it up and see if it will forge weld? 

any thoughts? 

New forge.jpg

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I wouldn't worry about pressure, the key is keeping a good flame profile in high and low fire.  As I've said in the past, while ribbon burners have many advantages, one key disadvantage is that you need to be careful in turning down the burner to a low fire condition after your forge has been running at high fire long enough to get very hot.

Note, I started with a blower that size for my forced air natural gas forge and switched to a larger one to get more BTU output.  Your forge shouldn't "choke" due to too much fuel, you should see a lot more dragons breath reduction flame at the forge doors where the gas fuel mix is hunting for more air to burn.  If your flame is not heavily reducing, but just lifting off the burner face, it is a function of the burner outlet port size as related to forge interior temperature (and consequent flame front speed).

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I am far from an expert, but my first thoughts are that a blown forge and a naturally aspirated forge are very different. 
Wile a NA forge uses the flow of pressurized fuel to induce air flow the blower dose the work in a blown forge. 
An example of this are blown natural gas forges running on residential pressure vs NA forges running on commercial pressure. 
 

So an NA forge needs higher pressure to work, wile a blown forge only needs the right volume of fuel 

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It's usually a mistake to try to compare the pressure and results of someone else's burner/forge combination with yours.  These DIY builds lack the precision to do reliable apples to apples comparisons.

Since you are using 1/4" pipe as the fuel line you should not expect much, if any, pressure to register on your gauge.   The only real purpose of a gauge in this situation is repeatability. If you know you need a certain pressure of fuel with properly adjusted air to reach a desired temperature, you can make a note of that and set that pressure when you start your forge the next time. 

If you want to see pressure on your gauge you'll have to restrict the fuel supply line enough so that some amount of pressure is required for you to get the volume of gas per unit of time needed to achieve your desired temperature.  That can be done with a smaller orifice where the fuel is injected into the system, a significantly smaller diameter supply line, a needle valve between the regulator and the mixing tube, or even (not recommended) kinking or smashing the fuel supply line a bit.  If you use a needle valve you should "set it and forget it" and just use your regulator to adjust pressure if you want to be able to repeat results.  If you change the needle valve you change the amount of restriction in the line, and then the pressure readings become unreliable for getting the same temperature results.

Regardless, don't worry about the pressure someone else uses in their system.  To the extent that it's useful at all, the pressure can just tell you what you need in your system to get the temps you want.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Latticino said:

I wouldn't worry about pressure,

That is what I was assuming seems pretty tough to build much pressure with a full port orifice, I have only run naturally aspirated forges Ron Riel style  Burners so its new to me. I think ill try to crank it up to forge welding temp, Which I have never forge welded so that will be interesting.

Thank you!

Edited by Mod30
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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Buzzkill said:

It's usually a mistake to try to compare the pressure and results of someone else's burner/forge combination with yours.  These DIY builds lack the precision to do reliable apples to apples comparisons.

 

Thank you, I was thinking the same thing, I also have my pressure gauge right at the tee at the top of the air fuel mixer, downstream of the needle valve, I think most people have their pressure gauge between the tank and the needed valve from what I have seen. Odd thing, i never adjust the needle valve just the pressure on the regulator. 

Edited by Mod30
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There is a place on the regulator specifically for gauges. Needle valves regulate flow not pressure, everything in the supply lines between the reg and needle valve will be at the same psi. psi after the needle valve will fall off.

Frosty The Lucky.

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52 minutes ago, WestCoastHunter said:

I also have my pressure gauge right at the tee at the top of the air fuel mixer, downstream of the needle valve

Yeah, you won't get any appreciable pressure to read with the gauge there.  Like Frosty said, there is usually a place on a regulator for a gauge.  If it didn't come with a gauge it will probably have a threaded plug in that spot.  You can just remove the plug and install your gauge there.  I can't think of a particularly beneficial reason to install a gauge where you have yours.  It make the most sense on, or as near as possible to, the regulator imho.

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Putting a gauge as close to the burner as possible is an intuitive mistake lots of folk make before they know better.

The psi effects the fire so putting the gauge close to the burner is the intuitive logic, makes sense. It's just not so. We've all figured things out logically and been wrong. Normal normal, been there have a closet full of the T shirts. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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