Monkey Tools — material and heat treatment?

[JHCC]

I was thinking of making a set of various sizes of monkey tool from some heavy bars of hex stock I picked up a while back. I’ve seen such tools for sale in 4140 or S5, and one or two discussions here on IFI have included people saying they thought mild steel should be fine. I’d like that, since that’s what my stock is.

So, what do we think of monkey tools in mild, with the working ends case-hardened?

[George N. M.]

I think it depends on how much work you expect to be doing with the tools.  If you are planning to make a bunch of mortise and tenon joinery projects I'd suggest the tougher steel.  But if you are only going to use it occasionaly mild steel is probably fine.

I'd probably use super quench on the mild steel rather than messing about with case hardening.

Speaking of Ralph Vaughn Williams, years ago I turned on the Denver classical radio station on a morning when it was a blizzard in Laramie and they were playing his Sinfonia Antarctica (expanded from the movie score for Scott of the Antarctic).  One of the most appropriate pairings of music and weather that I have experienced.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

 

[Frazer]

All of mine are made from mild steel and they have been just fine. A tougher steel couldn't hurt, but so far so good (1-2 years, moderate use). I didn't do any sort of case hardening or super quench.

I'll add that the largest diameter I have is 3/8" so I don't need to apply a whole lot of force to square up shoulders and monkey around a bit..

I made them from either 1" or 3/4" square in the same style M. Aspery shows in his videos.

[JHCC]

9 hours ago, George N. M. said:

I'd probably use super quench on the mild steel rather than messing about with case hardening.

Full disclosure: part of my reasoning for considering  case hardening is that I picked up a can of Kasenit from “Honest Bob” Cruikshank’s estate sale last year, and I want to give it a try. 

[Frosty]

I don't believe impact tooling is a proper use of case hardening, it does nothing to resist deformation. 

I'd like to experiment with case hardening a ply or two before welding up a billet to enhance pattern development. That's just a thought though.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I use Kasenit on muzzle-loaders, mostly for hardening the frizen's on flintlocks. It works a treat, too bad it is no longer sold. Another case hardening agent is Cherry Red which will work almost as well so I'm stingy with the Kasenit.

[Les L]

I use the drills from pneumatic rotary hammers to make mine, the ones I have already have a 1/4 hole through them so all I have to do is cut to length and change the hole size to what I need. 

[BillyBones]

JHCC, mine are made from some bar ends i got at work. They are 12L14 and so far have held up pretty good. 1/8" up to 3/8". The struck ends have mushroomed some but the business end is still in good shape. I would provably go with something else for anything over 3/8" though. 

Totally missed the Kasenit at the garage sale. 

Bob's son told me they are planning another garage sale soon. Like early summer. 

[anvil]

4 hours ago, Les L said:

pneumatic rotary hammers

I do the same but different stock. I use old drill rod with the same 1/4" hole down the middle. No heat treat needed.

When I forge the struck end round, the hole closes, and I always drill a hole in the side a little down from the top. 

[Les L]

Thanks for the advice on the side hole. I cut mine to length with a band saw, or my side grinder, and then grind the top round. I don’t heat treat and have turned them over and used the struck end for a different effect on items. I’ve never had any mushroom problems or change in hole size with them. 

[ThomasPowers]

Rock drill shafts are fairly common out here where mining was common and mountains needing blasting for road work abound.  In fact it's generally harder to find the shafts without a central hole than with one. 

I got to wondering if sucker rod would make good tools like that as the end has a square the size of a hardy---for some sizes and there is even usually a dimple in the center to center your drill bit.  You would need to anneal before drilling and then reharden/temper; but it's good steel. (A tip: places that use used sucker rod for making fences often cut the ends off and you may be able to get buckets of just the ends for scrap rate from them----often a bottle opener will get you more than enough!

[Les L]

Thanks for the advice on the side hole. I cut mine to length with a band saw, or my side grinder, and then grind the top round. I don’t heat treat and have turned them over and used the struck end for a different effect on items. I’ve never had any mushroom problems or change in hole size with them. 
Another place to find the rock drill shafts, for people not in mining areas, is to check with your local natural gas distribution department, they use the rock drills to bore through roads and sidewalks to pinpoint gas leaks and usually throw the old drill shafts away 

[Frosty]

Tool rental places usually have a bucket of worn jack hammer bits, some places want a couple bucks each, other places are happy to get them out of the way. Sometimes the same place depending on who you talk to. Treat them like 1045-1055 steel and you're golden. The ONLY jack hammer bits made from S series steel are special use bits, usually in foundries IIRC. You aren't going to find S series steel jack hammer bits at the local Home Depot or Dandy Randy's tool rental.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

I think all my jackhammer bit stock got turned into bottom tools. 

[Frosty]

Makes good struck tools and there's always more available. Spade bits are ready make hardies.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

I’m picking up some S-7 pins at the industrial surplus place tomorrow, but that’s for other projects. 

[JHCC]

On 5/17/2022 at 10:31 PM, George N. M. said:

I'd probably use super quench on the mild steel rather than messing about with case hardening.

A question about super quench, then: would I simply harden the tools and be done, or would they need tempering (especially on the struck end)?

[George N. M.]

My experience with super quench and mild steel is that I have never seen something shatter or chip off.  It hardens the mild steel as much as it can be  but it doesn't get brittle.  For a struck tool it will probably mushroom over on the struck end faster than a hardened and tempered high C tool but much slower than untreated mild steel.

I'd super quench it and call it good.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[JHCC]

Sounds good. Many thanks. 

[anvil]

As George said, No need to temper after super quench.