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Need bar stock for tooling.


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On 10/17/2021 at 6:52 PM, USANewbie said:

i don't know but we'll see. I will have fun building it though. I love building tools

No matter my advice, this is the belief that rules all!

Enjoy

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On 10/17/2021 at 3:05 PM, JHCC said:

the CBA Facebook page

Mark Aspery commented on that page:

”I have the parts from John West to photograph and will pen a short article on John's behalf regarding the veining tool [in the] CBA Magazine.

“In essence, its 1-inch sq tubing constraining 3/4-inch tooling. 

“There is a spring attached to keep a gentle but constant pressure of the tool onto the project piece - this stops the "bounce of the tool" and aids accuracy.

“The business end of the upper tooling is tapered - with a larger gap at the front to allow for a smoother feed of the stock (from the front so you can see what is happening).

“The staple holding everything together is a factor of the length of leaf (or Dragon) that you intend to vein.

“The handle allows the tooling to be lifted as you position the project. It is fitted into a drill hole in the upper tooling. This requires a slot to be cut in the upper sq tubing - drill and zip disc....

“Bottom side of the tooling is crowned to allow for rotation of the project (curved lines). More crown tighter curves...

“The tool was fitted to be used in the vise - but is perhaps better suited to be used at the anvil - note Victoria's shoulder position during use. But, as hardy holes vary at these type of events, fitting for the vise made sense in the short term.”

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I made a bottle opener today and had trouble centering  the slot I punched. If i had a jig or clamp to hold the steel under my tool holder I could punch the slot perfectly centered every time, and more quickly. It would waste less heat because i wouldn't waste time trying to line up the punch. This bottle opener is made from thin stock and cools quickly. I'm defiantly going to make this tool so it can accept bottom and top tooling.

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You could do that, but you would be much better served by practice, practice, practice until you get it right. A jig and a punch will do one thing only, but hand/eye coordination and hammer control will benefit every part of your smithing.

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A good way to make sure your hole is going to be in the right place is to use your punch to mark where you're centered at a low (red) heat. Use the residual heat from the previous step to make your mark that way very little time is wasted. Then back in the forge, find your mark and punch your hole.

To risk stating the obvious, you make your mark at a low heat so the impression is shallow. This allows you to move it around easier if you're slightly off center.

JHCC, I couldn't agree more.

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You can center punch it cold Frazer and not worry about working close to hot steel. 

USAN: Do you want to learn to be a blacksmith or make tools so you don't need to be a blacksmith to make things that sort of look forged?

Hand forging is about skill and the only way to develop skill is by practicing the craft. Shortcuts only short you on skills.

Frosty The Lucky.

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JHCC and Frazer, yes thank you, i did much better on my second bottle opener today. I used a soapstone to mark out the middle  and i could still see it through the glowing steel. A center punch mark sounds like good advice. However i still think a tool holder would be better, faster, more economical.

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Frosty, thanks for the advice, you are right, however the tool holder doesn't take away from the forged look. This tool holder is really no different than a guillotine tool. To answer your question i want the best of both worlds i guess. I'm a tool enthusiast as well as a forging enthusiast. I did make a metal twister, and i have a metal bender. I figured saving fuel means more profit, but you are  right that cold forged steel often looks different than hot forged steel.

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This air powered slot punch is impressive. Roy slot punched this big chunk of steel  in one heat. My bottle opener was half that thickness or less and it took 3 heats to punch that slot. Of course i didn't have my slot punch ground with a point on the end like Roy has, if i had that it might have gone faster, but not as fast as this air powered  punch. I'm not sure why he didn't round the sides of that punch though. I thought slots couldn't have  sharp corners. I guess that's only true if you drift the slot open? Maybe there is another use for that slot?

 

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Pneumatic power vs mechanical power vs screw press power do similar things, just in a different way.  Choose the one that works for your project.  Look at a punch press to get an idea of how production work is done.

The hole produced is a product of the punch used.  

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I only watched the last minute or so of the video, but I just want to point out that wasn't done in one heat. It was at least 2. With practice you'll be able to punch that hole by hand in one heat no problem. Regardless, I would be worried about my anvil face and/or the punch trying to use a pneumatic tool like that. With a handheld punch you get some feedback when you're almost through and it's time to flip the stock and punch out the slug.

Nothing against Roy, it obviously works. It just seems like an unnecessary solution for that stock in that situation.. Make 25, or better yet, 50 bottle openers. Give/sell them your friends, family etc., but keep the first and last one. Not only will you see your punching skills improve, but so will your hammer control in general.

Play around with the style so it's not so monotonous, but try to make several that are exactly the same. One of the hardest things about blacksmithing is making identical (or nearly identical) pieces. You have to train yourself by repetition, repetition, repetition until it becomes second nature.

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I hate to disagree but I didn't see two heats, I saw only one. I cant see myself punching that slot in one heat. The steel cooled off too quickly. I  wasn't using mild steel however, i used steel from some mower blades that i salvaged. 

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A Santa Fe blacksmith named Russ Sweider took that to an extreme and made dozens of tools for his hand pneumatic hammer. His unforgettable demo was making a dragon out of 1-1/2" square stock in one heat. This included scales, eyes, teeth, ears, the works. Lol, I stayed with Tom Joyce that night and he did the same dragon head in one heat with only his hand tools. His classic remark was "I think power tools running at 1700 rpm just make you think you are working faster!"

You can make a saddle to go over your anvil face out of 1/4"x4" or so. Use this when doing any cutting or punching to protect both your tool and your anvil.

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USAN, at 6:09 the air hammer just fades away and he picks it up on the other side of the anvil... there is a cut there.

Maybe I'm missing something?

Maybe you can't now, but in the future I think you will. I'm not saying it's a bad idea necessarily. I just don't want you to get the idea that you need such tools to do that work, especially for punching a slot in 3/16-1/4" flat stock.. I usually switch to a heavier hammer than I use for general forging when I'm punching holes. Remember the thinner the stock the faster it cools and the longer it sits on the face of the anvil the more heat is sucked out.

Strike while the iron's hot, as they say.

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