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I Forge Iron

Need bar stock for tooling.


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USANewbie:  OK, since you say you are leaving you may not see this but I will post it anyway.  First, use the highlight and select quote feature to focus your response in the right direction.  I almost never use the quote feature.  If I am directing a post to someone I will do what I did at the start of this post, use a name or initials.  Or, you can quote the old fashioned way, quotation marks and then type out the pertinent words.

The reason that this is an issue is that long quotes use up band width on the site's server and slow it down.  Also, long quotes tend to be redundant and unnecessary.

Second, I suggest that you stick around.  There are a lot of good folk here and there is a lot to be learned, both about iron work and lots of other things.  There are centuries worth of experience here and the membership is so varied in background that there is a lot of real world advice that is valuable.  Just keep away from politics, religion, sex, and language that you wouldn't have explain to a 10 year old girl or want to have her hear.  If there is something in that area you want to discuss with an individual use the private message feature.

If you don't stick around, Vaya con Dios and good luck.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

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I can understand not using the quote, im not sure what it has to do with quoting the person right above me however. Im confused. Anyway, i was surprised to find a prayer thread on this website. Me being a Christian i thought that was good. But i don't fit in anywhere, not even Christian forums. I've been banned so  many times. I guess I'm meant to be a loner. Thanks for your kind post. Have a blessed day. Ill stay off this website unless i need help with something, maybe that will work.

Edited by Mod30
Remove excessive quote.
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I still urge you to stick around. Lurk if need be.  But there is enough info here that it would not be a good thing to leave.  

And, you have to develop a semi-think skin.  I recently got moderated and had a whole thread deleted because of a difference in opinion about what was "political" of not.  But so what?  We all have to follow rules established by others such as speed limits.  So, if I have to follow rules here that is something I can live with.  The benefit is more than worth the hassle.

We have lots of kind of eccentric and/or unique folk here, probably including myself.  Stick around.  Watch how things are discussed and jump in when you have a question or a comment that you think would help someone.  Actually, we are pretty welcoming and a very diverse community.  Ages range from early teens to late 70s, education ranges from probably drop outs to advanced degrees, professions range from hands on crafts like blacksmithing or plumbing to advanced intellectual professions, religions (I'm guessing here) range from athiests through agnostics through hard core evangelicals to non-Christians (since we are a world wide forum with member all around the globe I'm sure there are some other faiths other than the Judeo-Christian traditions represented) and blacksmithing skills range from raw newbies through masters who have been doing it for longer than some members have been alive.

If you have doubts or a question about how something you want to say would be received feel free to PM me or someone else that feels approachable to discuss it or edit it.

Yours,

George

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11 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

so some sort of residual hardening will still be present and it will keep the top from mushrooming under the hammer impacts.

Do you harden the striking surfaces as well? I guess you're using a soft hammer on the guillotine dies if you do. I am making a guillotine soon too, but I wasn't going to harden the striking surfaces. 

~Jobtiel

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"eccentric and/or unique"

  I wonder which category I fall under?   ;)

10 hours ago, USANewbie said:

 i don't fit in anywhere

  You would do well to stick around here.  Just a learning curve with the quote feature.  Small potatos once you figure it out!

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Jobitel, I wouldn't harden the struck ends. I use 4140 for my dies and even hardening/tempering the working ends is arguably unnecessary. My butchering dies and flat dies I did harden and temper, but the fullering dies that I made more recently were just normalized. They all work equally well.

One thing I'll add about guillotine tools in general is that they are very handy, but can be pretty inefficient from a transfer of energy perspective. So when selecting the cross section of your dies don't go any bigger (thicker) than you need to. My dies are 0.75 x 1.5" and I ended up grinding down some of the the flats on the flat dies to reduce the amount of material that's being worked on at a time.

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Jobtiel1; You seem to think that there is only *1* hardness possible with hardening.  You can harden to a lower amount and increase toughness and wear resistance; but not be brittle. I don't use a soft hammer, I don't use annealed dies!

Nodebt; "Yes".

USAN, not everyone works well with how forums are set up---we've lost a few because of the strict language policy---and probably have gained many more because of the policy!  Nice to be able to suggest this site to folks you meet at church and not worry that they will be dragged through a cesspit of language.  I'm a firm believer that a forum should NOT try to be everything to everyone and so my posts have suggestions to folks who would do better at forums dedicated to armour making or casting.  If the restrictions on this forum are too bothersome to you; you are free to go find one more to your liking---or even to create your own forum(s)! (Or just attend meetings and only talk with folks face to face---works best with some folks.)  We don't get mad or upset if folks decide they are not a good fit; we also don't feel bad if folks leave in a huff; the site will survive. It gains and loses members all the time.

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14 hours ago, USANewbie said:

I can understand not using the quote, im not sure what it has to do with quoting the person right above me however. Im confused.

It's very simple: if you are simply REPLYING to a comment, DO NOT click "Quote".  Instead, type your reply in the "Reply to this topic..." box at the bottom of the page. 

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The Quote Feature. is very useful when two or more conversations are in progress, OR when some time has elapsed and you need reminded as to what your post references. It is not so useful when it repeats what you just read in the previous post.

When quoting you have the option to edit out all but the reminder of the post you reference. Usually one sentence or phrase is all that is needed to remind us. You can do this by highlighting the text you want to quote and then clicking the "Quote selection" box that will appear.

 

  On 11/7/2017 at 7:30 PM, Glenn said:
  5 minutes ago, Glenn said:

The quote feature is very useful, and can be not so useful when it repeats what you just read.

This would be an example of an edited post. 

Also, if you are responding to a quote, do not type your answer within that quote. Make it clear who is talking. This is especially important if you are responding to multiple statements or questions in one comment.

 

JHCC quoted you from 7 posts back as a reminder to the viewer of what he was referring to in his post. 

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I don't use the quote "feature". If I want to quote to "Make it clear who is talking"; I just do a highlight and copy paste and add " ".  Like I would do if I was writing a document.  Of course I read the forum on a computer and not a cell phone as I consider that the appropriate technology for doing so!

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50 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Jobtiel1; You seem to think that there is only *1* hardness possible with hardening.

You're right, I didn't think of that. That is actually pretty nice. I do think I'll leave the struck ends soft. I plan on using leaf springs as dies, and I already had a piece of that broke off from a drift I made with a crack in it.

Do you recommend hardening the struck ends and draw a higher temper, or is leaving it soft for leaf springs fine? I think that leaf spring is plenty tough to resist the hammer blows sufficiently. My top tools are 4140 and the hot cut already developed quite a lot of mushrooming, so I think I'll try toughening up that struck end the next time I make a top tool.

~Jobtiel

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USAnewbie, where you at in Ohio? I am in the Dayton area but we have members all over the state. If you are near Dayton i can tell you a couple scrap yards that let you pick and then there is always Alro and the Metals Supermarket. If you are near heck, i would let you dig a few pieces out of my scrap pile. Like someone else suggested try machine shops for some drops, though that is getting harder. Then there is also mechanics. They are good for coil and leaf springs, sway bars, axles, etc. 

 

 

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Depends on how much and how heavy it will be used.  A lot of simple dies I just normalize and expect to replace every now and then.  (I tend to start easy and if I really like using a particular tool work on replacing it with better steel and or better heat treating.)

How about a differential temper using a hot block on the die to draw the back-striking zone to a blue to gunmetal gray and leave the working edge harder?   Some people weld a hammer pad to their tops for sacrificial mushrooming and replace it as needed.

My most used fuller is a swing arm that uses a straightened, normalized section of a coil spring for the top arm; I have to replace it every 5 years or so. No big deal and if a student has an accident I'm not real upset---though I will make them help make the replacement!

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That is a good idea, I want to make fuller and butcher dies at least, as I find myself needing them most. I think the butcher can be left soft, don't need them as much as the fullers. But the fullers could use some more durability I think. I'll try it out as soon as I welded the guillotine up. 

Welding a sacrificial plate is also possible, but I'd rather learn to arc weld properly first before I start anything with tool steels.

~Jobtiel

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8 hours ago, BillyBones said:

 If you are near Dayton i can tell you a couple scrap yards that let you pick and then there is always Alro and the Metals Supermarket. If you are near heck, i would let you dig a few pieces out of my scrap pile.

Thanks. I have some small coil springs, about 1/2 inch. Not sure what i can use them for. I think  i'll either buy some 3/4 stock or try to score some thick  leaf springs

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USANewbie, when you say 1/2 inch coil spring, are you referring to the outside dimension of the coil or the thickness of the actual stock? If that's the dimension of the coil, the ~1/16" wire is going to be pretty much useless as forging stock, but if the stock is 1/2", you can use that for all kinds of tools -- chisels, punches, etc -- as well as for knifemaking.

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half inch coil spring is good enough material for hot punches, cold chisels, center punches. It holds up well for cold work tools in general and good enough for hot punches. Its easy and quick.to dress hot punches when they deform

I would not use it for tools you make and sell for others.

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