I need Photographs of a Sword blank

[Indianer]

Hello guys,

I've been busy watching Brother Banzai's videos again. Thinking about building a mini forge press myself I found some profoundly meaningful frames. Those are blades he either just finished forging under the press or, one step further, hammered the edge bevels on.

 

The blades are scaled, rough, and thick at that point. The lines a bit wiggly. And yet they are perfectly fine, tapered and ready to be taken to the rough grinding. This is an important message and I'd like to capture the nature of a blade blank in that condition for reference. And while I'm at it I'll make a beautiful concept drawing from it. If someone could help me out with the photographs that is.

 

What I'd love to have is a shot from right above the blade, taken from a distance so as to minimize distortion. And maybe one at an angle so the thickness becomes clear. Like these...

> A 1-handed blade fresh from the press maybe. It would be an extra perk if there were flares along the blade.

> The same blade fresh from the edge bevelling.

The background would be cut away, it doesn't matter. Some light to make out the surface texture is more important. What's impractical about the screenshots is that the blades lie in an angle to the camera. I can not rotate them digitally. Plus I had hoped you could produce a higher resolution...?

This takes time, so I'd also like to indemnify the one taking the pics. Can't reach Jeffrey Robinson himself. Let me know if it's possible

All the best
Indi

[Steve Sells]

not many use a press to make a sword, I use a hammer

[Indianer]

Weell... it doesn't really matter how the blank comes into being I guess. What I like about the un-bevelled shot is that from there it's good to be processed further - bevelling with the hammer, or grinding them in, as one wishes. Creates a clear succession of worksteps for the beginner. Of course one can get there with the hammer. Might even be valuable to see where one might call that forging done.

So if anyone happens to hammer out a sword in that stage, I'll be happy to take a look

[velegski]

I dont have any pictures. That said.  A  look at Peter Johnsson and how he constructs swords might be of benifit. Hes a European sword maker.. his book is expensive but reveals a great deal about sword construction.  Also check out Bjorn Gylfason of Denmark. He produces some fine works. 

[Frosty]

What is your purpose in attempting to make "beautiful" drawings? 

Make drawings of your own swords and you'll actually be able to make meaningful records and references.

Your mistakes as you learn are more valuable than drawings of someone else's work. Right now you don't know enough to draw the details you THINK are important so how do you imagine you'll know good from poor in other people's work?

Build a fire, hammer steel into a sword and take pictures along the way. Better make dimensioned drawings from measurements. Unfortunately you'll need to learn to draw, I have yet to see a 3D rendering program worth spit at making good drawings. Pretty yes but there is a world of difference between pretty and useful drawings. 

Do you even know what a 3 view drawing is? Renderings are all flash and very little information, ESPECIALLY for reference material.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Indianer]

Good evening Frosty,

I tried to keep the OP brief and therefore didn't go into the details.

I write. Whatever I learn, by hours, days or weeks of research, theory or practical, I put in personal notebooks. And I like to pretty them up with artful drawings, long as they get something valuable across. To that end I sometimes convert photographs or screenshots to gray-scale images. I could show you some, pm me if you want a sample. They are a lot of work. And still, I like doing and/or having them. It's a labor of love.

I won't argue you have a point. I could extract much more info from images if I had your knowledge as well as mine. But I also have mine. And in days-long sessions I found one thing - I am getting nervous and confused about the physical blade-making process where I don't need to. In the last forging I did I hammered the blade out and constantly checked...just too much. Because I didn't have a clear gameplan. Getting the contours right, tapering it, getting the bevels in. I tried to do all that at once, which was an unpleasant experience. Naturally the processes are interdependant to a degree. But I still should know what exactly I'm working on right now, or I just get lost.

This particular drawing should remind me of the following: Lines can meander a bit. A blank like the ones above doesn't demand perfectly level edges. And I don't start bevelling anything before it got a blank that has the strength I later want at the spine, or along the fuller, and tapers and thickness and width. It's not perfect? OK. I'll do some grinding anyway. Is it good enough to reliably clean it up in the grinding once the bevels are in? I should ask myself that when I hold it in hands.

 

Now I could simply put all that as text into the notes. And I probably will. But I'd like to do it as a capture, not a paragraph. Simply because. It would make me happy to have it as a picture. Those renderings were simply meant to show exactly what angle the photographer might take so I can work with the pics.

All that said everyone here is more than welcome to point out more things I could watch out for, or should take care of. But that is like asking a swimmer "Ey, how do you move through water?". I would't do that.

 

velegski, I never heard of either of them - thanks for the reference! That book is worth checking out, I'll look for it

Best, Indi

[ThomasPowers]

Which of the *HUNDREDS* of different types of one handed swords are you interested in? Dueling epee, wristbreaker cavalry sabre, Patton model cavalry sabre, Keris, rapier, early medieval, ancient greek, acient roman,...?

[Indianer]

Hi Thomas,

double edges straight longsword with or without fuller, preferably with flares (that what they are called? The pointy wide sections along the blade?).

Along the lines of these:

 

[ThomasPowers]

Counter guards were made to let you use the sword two handed for some of the up close and personal strikes. So you want a two handed one handed sword?

You may want to review the existing renaissance fighting manuals to get an idea of their use.

BTW how heavy do you want the sword to be?

[Indianer]

Yes, the long handles on these make them Hand-and-a-half swords. I personally find those appealing too. When I get to forge some for myself they'll have a blade length of 29-33'' (74-83 cm).

The counterguard though does not seem to be what I meant by "flare" - the Lothric knight sword has a pointy wide section in the blade just above the grip. In my browser I can see that right here in the thread in the video preview above. I mentioned those flares because I wasn't quite sure at what point to put them in - I believe I found someone put them into the tapered "blank", so they seem to be established before the edge bevelling, albeit blunt like the rest of the blade. Would be a nice additional info in the drawing.

As for the statistics, these are for the Seraph Aegis prototype linked in the vid above:

Overall length:	45.5 inches
Blade length:	32.5 inches
Blade width at widest point:	1.5 inches tapering to 1 at 4 inches from the tip
Blade thickness at base:	3/8 inches tapering to 3/16 at 4 inches from the tip
Cross width:	9.25 inches
Grip length:	10.25 inches
POBalance measured from end of grip:	4.75 inches
Weight:	3 pounds 7 ounces

[Steve Sells]

Have you ever made a blade before or are you just jumping in?

[Indianer]

Right now I'm really just looking to buy a photograph from someone who makes those regularly...

[Indianer]

Alright. Obviously my inquiry here wasn't appreciated. Thing is, much as I tried not to lash out, I'm gonna go to bed feeling like xxxx after another day being what feels like assaulted and ripped to pieces in spite of all politeness and demureness I could possibly muster in the light of being once again confronted with a deeply routed elbow mentality. I didn't come here to ruin anyone's day, I didn't come here to impose or force myself upon anybody, nor did I do anything even closely related to anyone. And yet I feel... like xxxx. Mostly sad really. And disappointed. Not because there's not gonna be anyone willing to help out here, but because I came to a forum that once had the purpose of helping people and apparently has fallen into an attitude of forcibly having people believe they will forever stay too stupid, lazy, incompetent, uneducated and ungifted, even unworthy of attempting something new. That makes this forum just another place like the rest of the world. Good night folks. Mine is gonna be crappy. Again.

[velegski]

Might I suggest that in future inquiries you be more clear in your desires. Your desire to purchase a picture  wasn't clear until your last post. And you mentioning you wanting to make a mini forge to build a sword in your opening post automatically raised the ire of the elders. To forge a sword with little or no experience  is a possibility.  However, for the  vast majority of people it has a very  remote possibility of success. Therefore the negative comments. The Lothric sword is to most sword makers,  a fantasy based sword, the second is more traditional, but the quard is stylized. 

Anyways.. good luck with your endeavors 

[Frosty]

We appreciated your question, much better than you think, obviously. What we appreciated was another beginner asking muddled questions and we attempted to get you to clarify. 

I apologize if we weren't gentle enough to not do such devastation to your delicate feelings. Blacksmithing or the very much more unforgiving craft of bladesmithing will NOT cut you any slack. Unlike us.

If you just wanted to buy some pictures why didn't you just say so. What could all the pretentious talk possibly add to such a simple question? Lots of talk talk doesn't impress us in a positive way and trying to guilt us for telling you the truth impresses us in a VERY negative way.

Still, we'll help if we can.

Frosty The Lucky. 

 

[ThomasPowers]

In western europe for about 1000 years the averager weight of a battle sword was over a pound lighter than what you listed.  Heavy is slow and slow is dead on the battlefield!  Most people have an exaggerated weight for their early swords---which is why I asked.  There are some swords that averaged heavier but even Zweihanders are a LOT lighter than most people think!

Curfrently there are several excellent swordmakers in Germany; you may want to track them down and see the blades they are making.  (Many people working to historical specs used the Oakeshott Topology to discuss blades; you may want to look that over too.)

OK I searched on "Lotheric Knight Sword"  seems to be more of a "fantasy weapon" and so misleading many people as to it's usability!   You are in an area where you should be able to see *many* examples of real swords used in real combat and use those to base a wooden version off of.

If you are going off of what is written in fantasy about them---remember that fantasy blades give you Goiters!

[Indianer]

Follow-up after I'd had a chance to cold down. Thanks to anyone who who took my reaction as what it was - a REaction.

velegski, I had no idea the OP was that misleading. I thought it pretty much on point, given the title. In retrospect, mentioning the mini forge probably didn't help.

Thomas, the wooden version based off real things is a great idea. In fact, I had long planned to set aside a tapered mid-process blank in mild steel. Makes it easier for me not to forge anything down too far before the grinding.

And frosty, while I appreciate the offer of continued support I think that if my answers were "pretentious" to you, then maybe you should have asked different questions. All my "talk" about what I planned to do with the shots, that unfolded AFTER I'd been asked to explain.

Anyway... still offering to buy photographs as described.

Cheers

[ThomasPowers]

BTW; have you managed a trip to the Deutsches Klingen Museum in Solingen?  A bit south of you I know but it might be worth a trip!  I certainly enjoyed it and found it profitable for my researches.