Coke in forge not lighting

[ThomasPowers]

Lump charcoal has been used for smithing for over 3000 years, coal for less than 1000 years.  Where people have difficulties is trying to use it in forges designed for coal.  Hence my comments on how to adapt a coal forge for charcoal.  Note if you do a browser search on  charcoal site:iforgeiron.com you will find a LOT of hits; I get 3480   I'd bet that all your questions have already been answered here *many* times!

[Daswulf]

QbB, not sure if anyone's mentioned but you might not be getting enough air blast to it. In your picture your tuyere may be blocked. And is there a close off on the ash dump? Just wondering if you've ruled these out as the culprit. 

[QbBlacksmith]

I have access to some regular coal will this work

And how big do the holes in the clinker great need to be

Yes there is an ash dump and it is blowing good

[ThomasPowers]

I'm sorry but there is no such thing as "regular coal"  there are hundreds of different varieties with differing characteristics; some are great for smithing, others are OK and some are terrible.  Which is why we suggest folks get a 5 gallon bucket and TRY a new coal source before they buy a ton!  I know a smith out here who was given several tons of coal---he ended up using it to gravel his driveway as it was  not great for smithing.   

Good blacksmithing coal tends to be: Bituminous, good coking, low ash/clinker production, LOW SULFUR!, low in extraneous matter (gravel, sand, etc).  One of the first things smiths do when meeting for the first time is ask "Where are you getting your coal?"  It might be helpful to ask around your area; perhaps try some old farriers, (most young ones are all propane these days...)  

Since you are new to coal; it might be hard to judge a batch  and so getting stuff others use may be a good way to get started until you have a feel on how it's supposed to work in your forge!

 

[JHCC]

Hence my saying "regular blacksmith's coal"!

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

I’m not sure if it’s frowned upon but I’ve been using a map fuel torch to start my coal. It seems to work pretty well for me. 

[QbBlacksmith]

I have a propane bottle on a map torch head probably doesn’t get hot enough though

[George N. M.]

QbB,  OK, a couple more things:  1) There is coal for general use or use in coal fired boilers, e.g. electrical generating plants, and there is blacksmith coal.  There is a BIG difference.  Just about all of the coal mined in Wyoming and Montana is NOT good blacksmithing coal.  It is sub-bituminous and has poor coking characteristics.  I tried using it when I started out years ago and it is not a good memory.

2) Your forge is very similar to my small forge that I started out on and used for years.  The tuyere (the plate with the holes for the air) is clearly a later replacement.  I suggest a new one.  When I have replaced mine I just used a plate, as described in my previous post, with 1/4" holes drilled in it.

3) Is your problem getting the fire going or having it go out after it is going.  Your posts have been a bit unclear.  If it is the former, here is how I light my coke fire.  It is more complex than some of the other methods suggested and may be more complex than necessary but it has taken on the aspect of ritual for me.  It is based on degrees of flammability and difficulty of ignition.  I start with one full sheet of newspaper crumpled up placed on the tuyere.  Then I build a little "log cabin" of split kindling (usually cedar) around the newspaper.  Then I put a handful of green coal on top of the kindling and newspaper.  Then, I add a bit of charcoal starter to the newspaper, kindling, and coal.  Not too much, just a few tablespoons worth.  Then I put a layer of coke over the top of the whole thing.  I light it by leaving a tunnel in the coke so that I can get a match or BBQ lighter into the kindling and newspaper.  After lighting it I keep a moderate air blast to the fire.  As the bottom material burns out the pile will start to collapse and I add more coke, particularly where there are flames coming up between the original chunks of coke.  The idea is that the newspaper lights the wood, the wood lights the coal, and the coal lights the coke.

Then just keep air to the fire and occasionally rake out clinkers and you should be good all day.

Also, I add new coke to the top of the fire because there is no need to rake coal in from the side to turn to coke at the edge of the fire as there is when burning coal.

4) One of your first projects should be a poker/scraper to use in tending the fire.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions you don't want to bring to the whole forum.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Daswulf]

I dont frown upon using a mapp gas torch to light a forge. Works great for me and gets it going fast. 

I was just wondering on those possibilities QbB. Never know.

As far as the holes, best is just enough there to keep the coal from falling through the tuyere. I like it more open concentrated in the center so I get a main blast up through the area of my 2" tuyere. I could be wrong but it looks like yours might mainly shoot to 3 separate outer areas and might be less concentrated in the center. That could atleast add to the difficulty. 

[George N. M.]

PS You may be able to get blacksmith coal through Tractor Supply in Cody.  They may have to order it in and may have a minimum shipment which is too much for you but I'd give them a call and talk to the store manager.  Call, do not text or email.  Talk, or even better, go in and talk face to face.

[ThomasPowers]

Note that TSC may also carry anthracite coal which can be used for blacksmithing; but has some of the same problems lighting and keeping lit as coke does.

[QbBlacksmith]

What sized hold are best for the clinker great

I also called I guy in the buyers guide he has a 50lb bag of coke for $30

[Dale Russell]

I use one of these in my " coke " forge 

Cast iron drain grate . They come in many different shapes & sizes 

Dale Russell 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Dale Russell
added more info

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

I didn’t think about using a drain grate that’s a good idea Dale! 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Along with getting my fire started, I use Kraft paper (grocery store paper bags) which for me burn longer than newspaper. Then like George N.M. some kindling, been known to use wood stove pellets with coke on top of that and coal around the outside border. I use the propane torch to light the paper and give the blower several slow cranks. When the paper and kindling get going good I increase the amount of air and add more coke to the top of the pile. My starting coke comes from prior fires that I save by putting the fire out when done forging. In the picture the coke is in front and green coal in back, water sprinkler can to extinguish the fire.

[QbBlacksmith]

Will it help if I make the coke deeper

[George N. M.]

I once tried using a floor drain plate as a replacement tuyere but it burned out quite quickly, like within a few forging session IIRC.  I've had better luck with a perforated steel plate which does erode and deteriorate over time but we are talking years between replacements.  If a person does not have a drill press available trying a floor drain plate is worth a try and a few bucks.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

ObB, When forging in my small forge I would say my fire is 3-5" deep.  It will vary depending on what I am doing.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[QbBlacksmith]

Ok thank you 

                                   Quin 

[anvil]

Just a note on my above post. My only experience with pet coke came from Wyoming. Its still available at the farrier/blacksmith supplier on the eastern slope of Colorado. If George is burning coke. Id guess it is the same. I know that density is what makes it different from Met/Blacksmiths coal. I have no clue if density is a standard or not. Pet coke is made in the Salt Lake city area and is available from a local dealer in that area.

If you promise to not let it out,,, Ill confess to sometimes starting my fire with a rosebud!

George, if you are burning coal, whats your source?

[JHCC]

One thing that makes a big difference between the different types of coal is the presence or absence of volatile hydrocarbons. Bituminous coal contains bitumen, which is a fancy word for coal tar. Anthracite, on the other hand, is almost pure carbon. 

[anvil]

The primary difference is "blacksmith coal"(bituminous) cokes and anthracite does not. The difference is like night and day.

[rockstar.esq]

On 7/10/2021 at 11:18 AM, anvil said:

Just a note on my above post. My only experience with pet coke came from Wyoming. Its still available at the farrier/blacksmith supplier on the eastern slope of Colorado.

That's the stuff I've used.  It goes out very easily, but it doesn't generate much smoke or clinker when burned.  

[anvil]

I have to say i'm working from memory here. The Carbondale mine had closed and I'd run out of coal. A blacksmith/trucker friend brought me a load once a year for a couple years. The price was right and the shipping was free. There was coking coal available from Trinidad, Raton, And Hesperus, but it was,,, and is,,, a dirty but usable coal. When my friend quit deliveries, I went back to coal.

I'm pretty sure I'd remember a problem with the coke, but nothing sticks out. Lol. doesn't mean much,,, I know I'd remember if I had to restart my fire more than once a day, including a lunch break or even a couple hours to the hardware store. Other than anthracite, I don't believe I've burnt any fuel in my shop where dumping the ash, keeping the ash dump open, poking a small hole thru the top of the fuel, then add little air or a handful of sawdust was all it took and back to work. 

So, it is a memory thing, not recent experience. I am considering coke for my new shop. I'ts supposed to be available near Salt Lake City,,, but Hesperus is just down the road.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I was taught, if you are going to be away from the coal fire for a while, to place a wood block in the fire. When you come back a little air will bring the coal back to heat rapidly then fish out what is left of the wood and go to work.

[anvil]

That works as well. I've never had a need for the wood block. Lol, too complex for me. No matter which way, you need to shim the ash dump open in order to get a little draft. 

Once I had a 3 week job and I was using Carbondale coal. When banked as above, it would neither burn out or go out over night. At the end of the job, I realized I did the boy scout equivalent of a "1 match campout" , I lit my fire once with one match and it stayed lit for 3 weeks.