Using Scale in the Garden

[George N. M.]

As John says, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  One of the problems with scientific questions is breaking them down into their component parts so that the various variables can be tested.  Very often, the more you look the more variables you find.  So, it is hard to say that X gives Y effect.

And there are still areas where we have a very imperfect understanding of various natural phenomena, e.g. magnetism and gravity.  We can observe them but don't really understand how they work, particularly at an atomic level.

There is still so very much that we don't know.  There are known unknowns where we know we don't know something but there are also unknown unknowns where we don't even know we don't know something.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research.~ A. Einstein

[Ted Ewert]

I brought the limitations of "science" up as an alternative perspective to Linda's reaction to the book as though it were radioactive. Her reaction is typical of many in the scientific community who are great at regurgitating someone else's research, but have a closed mind to anything outside of that bubble. 

I have not tested Callahan's theory, I just thought it interesting. What I got from the book was an energetic enhancement of the soil rather than a chemical one. Difficult to measure or quantify, but plausible IMHO.  

As a perpetually curious person, I have studied many phenomenon considered by mainstream science to be kooky. Some of it is, and some of it isn't. 

 

[Frosty]

Ted: I believe the bubble outside of which Linda's reaction originates is spelled out pretty clearly in the first page of Callahan's paper. He rejects proper scientific method for a vague nebulous logic stream that can't be pinned down as true or false. 

This is how con artist's work, you see this type of verbal hula dance on TV patent medicine commercials. "Clinical studies prove!" A clinic is just more than one person. Studies means nothing. I study my toenails when I trim them.

The guy doesn't have a theory except as a claim. A proper theory has typically had more work done to disprove it than prove. 

If you want to test the idea please keep us in the loop but use proper test methods. Start with a LARGE well combined amount of soil, say 20+ yards. By well blended you need all the soil in the plots to be as identical as possible. Prepare say 5 plots worth of soil with ONE containing whatever makes a paramagnetic condition. That way you'll have 4 controls and 1 test plot. 

You won't know which though because the paramagnetic preparation was done by someone else, not present when you mixed the base soil and not when you fill the plots. I'd use raised beds for precise control. 

Then plant your plants and track development. 

Who knows, he might be onto something but his language is too suspect for me to spend anything on his . . . stuff.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

Also, be very clear on how how the degree of paramagnetism is being measured and how the development of the plants is being monitored. 

[Daswulf]

I Like Frosty's idea. 

[Ted Ewert]

I doubt I'll do this experiment for a number of reasons. I noted his work because of the original post. 

I've studied subtle energies in the past and his ideas fit quite well into that realm. I don't expect anyone here to know much about that subject so I'll leave it there.

 

[Frosty]

I'm always up for learning something new, hearing something I find suspicious is often the start of interesting new things. At least give me something to read, a link or two please.

I know I get carried away with details. I see the methods in my head and it can be hard to pare things down. I wouldn't expect you to build a test garden and do the kind of documentation it'd require to begin proving/disproving this premise. I'm not that interested either. 

Of course it it was a matter of tilling scale into one half of a garden and watching the results it might be interesting enough to do proper testing.

What does Callahan use to produce a paramagnetic growth medium? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

WRT medicine, the placebo effect may be stronger than the actual medicine; which is why double blind studies are so important.  It also can be hard to determine cause and effect---without a controlled experiment how do you determine if extra growth was due to the additive and not the extra tilling that went on when adding it?

I gave up Judging Science Fair projects as nobody seems to have been taught to worry about  extraneous variables and their control in experiments; even when it would be simple to do!

Have you studied any of Verhoeven's work on Wootz where it turned out that some of the "tramp elements"  actually were the active ones in making wootz?

[Ted Ewert]

Hi Frosty, I'd be happy to go into more detail for you, but it's been quite a few years since I read the book so I'll have to refresh my memory. 

As a note, alternative science is generally not well received by established science. There are few rigorous protocols employed  because the topics being studied rarely lend themselves to it. Many times it's just a collection of observations and an opinion. 

That doesn't bother me, and frankly, I don't see anything wrong with it. I know it's not cold hard fact but it's interesting nonetheless. 

 

[Frosty]

I have a couple few friends very much into alternative "science" and are happy to ignore the term "alternative science" is a contradiction in terms. It's not science if you can't lend scientific method to it. 

Regardless I have all of Von Daniken's books which couldn't have stood up to any sort of research at the time. It's not a fair comparison but it was fun reading when I was a kid. It didn't take much non-alternative reading to discover the plains of Nazca aren't a mystery to the inhabitants.

If a subject won't stand up to close scrutiny then it's entertainment. No?

Regardless lots of new stuff started off as alternative studies. Zero point energy for one. 

Just shoot me some links or broad subjects to look at. I'm not looking for an ha HAH moment, I just like to read about things I don't know. If I think you're out of your mind I'll PM. Before I send the men with butterfly nets. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

"anecdotal research"  Is a thin reed as has been proven in many studies where a few people claiming one thing have often overshadowed the documented results of 98+% of the others.  (Not to get political; but Vaccination is one such area. I've helped clean early settler graveyards and seen the waves of various diseases mentioned on tombstones and had my kids vaccinated---I bet on the statistics not the hype!)

[Ted Ewert]

I only turn to alternative sources when I smell fish, which is quite often these days. The Kennedy assassination, 911, the current covid vaccine, etc. Call me a kook if you want, but I'm tired of being lied to by the government and the press.

I worked for ABC TV in a technical capacity for over 30 years. I saw firsthand how the news went from mostly objective journalism to blatant propaganda. This coincided with ownership rules being relaxed where now you have 6 major corporations owning 90 percent of the mainstream press.

I saw the raw footage compared to the end result. What you see on TV is often highly manipulated to convey the message they want you to hear, not what actually happened. 

Consequently, I don't believe a word they say. That's why I get my information elsewhere. 

[ThomasPowers]

Funny I don't own a TV! (And I work in a Research University, and previously for NRAO and Bell Labs)

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

I wonder would it hurt to mix the scale and clinker in with red dirt clay for filler when lining a coal forge? Or would that be a bad idea? Just curious of different ways someone could recycle the waste.
 

Or is it best to just follow Daswulfs idea and dump it in the driveway? Or follow JHCC an sweep it up and dump it in the trash? 

[ThomasPowers]

What about "trod it into the dirt floor of the shop"?

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Well that works too! I guess after awhile that would give you a pretty solid floor. 

[JHCC]

That's what I'd do if I didn't already have a concrete floor.

[ThomasPowers]

Trod Harder!

[JHCC]

Scale up the impact?

[ThomasPowers]

Pack the scale down!

[JHCC]

Gives a whole new meaning to "putting a thumb on the scale".

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

I’m glad y’all never scale back on the jokes around here! There’s always something fun to read. 

[ThomasPowers]

True; but we often try to vector our jokes in rather than just rely on scalar ones!

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

That was definitely an element from a field I’m not familiar with. I had to look it up.