Did I damage my anvil

[SinDoc]

I am a newbie who is just starting out. I received an anvil from a family member who was using it as a yard ornament. They had painted it to prevent rusting so when it was given to me, without thinking I took an angle grinder to it to remove the paint. While I did not go full dumb and used a full blown grinding disc, I still used an abrasive sanding/polishing disc. I stripped the paint off and did the rest with a wire wheel. 

The anvil still has (I believe) a nice ring to it and it still seems to have decent rebound. However, when watching videos of others making knives, it doesn't appear to have the same level of rebound as the anvils in various videos. Did I possibly destroy it in my innocent attempt to rid it of the paint?

As far as make, I have not the slightest idea. This was found in an abandoned barn at the edge of a family members property roughly 20 years ago. I remember moving it around much easier then. O to be young again. The only markings I found were what appears to be 112, which I assume is its weight.

[FlatLiner]

Most likely you didn't do anything to detrimental to your anvil.

[Frosty]

I'd be pretty surprised if you'd done it damage, didn't do it any good but no damage. Hot steel and a hammer will make that fine old lady's face shine. 

If you put the lighting at a shallow angle when you take pics the surface textures like stamped characters will be much easier to see. Wipe it down with chalk, flower, etc. and gently wipe it off is another trick for bringing out details, doing them both is better still. The next step is a crime lab type thing and not really worth the effort. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Frazer]

Well, the abrasives didn't do it any favors, but it doesn't look like you went too crazy with it. In my non-expert opinion I don't think you went far enough to damage it.. What sort of rebound are you getting (percentage wise)? One thing to keep in mind is different makers heat treated their anvils differently. It was actually a point of contention, each claiming that their harder or softer face is superior to their competitors. 

If you get the steel hot, most of the energy goes into the piece and you really don't need rebound of 90% to deform it. If your rebound is, say, 30%-40% just to throw a number out there, then it's possible it was in a structural fire at some point. Hard to say.

It looks to me like you have a more than serviceable anvil that will last you a long time to come. She looks ready for some hot iron.

Oh, and the 112 might be the weight in the hundredweight system where 1  1  2 = 112lbs +28lbs + 2lbs = 142 lbs

[SinDoc]

I would say when I tried a sort of "drop" test with a hammer, if the hammer was say roughly 2 inches off, the hammer would bounce back a little over an inch. So I would say roughly 60 to 70ish% rebound.

I have made a couple practice knives out of random metal just getting hammer practice and such and it felt like it was giving someone decent rebound, just not compared to what I would see when watching say, Jason Knights videos (believe that was his name). A missed strike does cause quite the ear shattering ring. Thankfully I have been working outside in an open environment (not my wooden, highly flammable shed shown in the picture )

[Frosty]

Doing a rebound test with a hammer doesn't look the same, different rebound effects. If you're getting 50% rebound from a hammer you're probably looking at closer to 80%+. Find a bearing ball, NO NOT A 1" bearing, 3/8" is fine and 1/2" is easier to find if it takes a bad bounce. Drop the bearing from a REASONABLE height, 10-12" is good and eyeball estimate how far it bounces back. Do it from the 10" mark on a ruler if you're not good at this kind of estimation and read it as a percentage.  EZ PZ, yes?

Don't start comparing your expectations to what you see on internet videos, ESPECIALLY hammer rebound. There is a trick to getting your hammer to lift higher on the rebound. It saves on arm fatigue by taking advantage of the anvil's rebound but is not a measure of anvil rebound.

Oh, yes, Jason Knight is the name of a master bladesmith and one time judge on Forged In Fire.

To learn basic forging skills I HIGHLY recommend you make things other than blades. Making blades from low carbon steel isn't good practice for making blades, high carbon steel moves much differently and has more critical temperature requirements. 

If you learn basic smithing making coat hooks, leaf key chains, garden furniture and jewelry, you can learn to move hot steel without the other fussier learning curve messing with you. A good intro into high carbon steel is making some of your tools like: chisels, punches, drifts, hacks and garden tools like weeding forks, spade, hoe, bill hook. (OOPS a bill hook is a BLADE!) Bill hooks however aren't as critical of technique and heat treatment as a skinner or EDC type blade so they're a good place to start.

Buying new knife steel is another good way to begin, you don't need to learn to evaluate found mystery steel, that is another set of skills and learning curve.

Bet you didn't think it was this complicated did you? Bladesmithing with a reasonably good chance of success involves knowledge and practice. There is nothing preventing you from jumping straight into making blades but be prepared for the failures while you learn the craft.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Note it has to be a ball bearing and not just a steel ball.  I consider any anvil with a BB test of greater than 70% a decent anvil to use.

On identification: is there any indentation on the bottom?  Are there flat ledges above the feet in front and back?  Are there noticable steam hammer marks on the bottom of the heel?  Are there any weight and serial number stampings on the front of the front feet?

Where and how is the 112 stamped?  If it's on the side near the waist then is it stamped 112  or is it stamped 1   1   2, the later will be CWT weight and be 142#; a bathroom scale will  provided a weighed weight and it's often slightly different than a stamped weight.

[SinDoc]

Towards Frostys response:

I have been tinkering with all kinds of things lately. Mostly things I had laying around. Rebar, welding rod etc. Not really trying to make anything in particular, just practicing hammering and such. They just all happened to turn into the shape of a knife lol. I did order some 1084 that I managed to tinker on that the other night, and it moves much more differently than those other metals. Still had fun though!

Towards Thomas:

I think I have a ball bearing or two laying around. Ill have to look. As far as markings, when I was cleaning it up I was trying to find some to try and ID it but all I found was the 1 1 2 with the center 1 almost looking like an "I". It was a noticeably different shape than the first 1. It was stamped on the side a little off center towards the bottom. I will try to get some more pictures of it. I don't recall noticing anything on the bottom, but I wasn't looking for anything there so could have overlooked it. I will take a couple more pictures and post back. The misses very much wants to know what it is so she can claim that SHE owns a very old antique 

[ThomasPowers]

You do know that there were 3 anvil manufacturers in Ohio; two in Columbus, Trenton and Arm and Hammer, and one in Cleveland, Columbian.  We don't consider an anvil *old* until it gets past the 200 year mark; literally tons of 100+ year old anvils still in use---they wear like iron!

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Most anvils I have seen are marked on the other side from your picture. I would say with a loud ring the face hasn't been harmed and it looks like you have a very serviceable anvil no matter who made it. The Columbian anvils mark is a C inside a triangle, Trenton's have the name inside a triangle and Arm & Hammer have a... wait for it... Arm & hammer. Lots of times the logo will be very worn and have punch & chisel marks over them. Old time smith's would test the punches & chisels on the side of the anvil for hardness & temper.

 

PS.. The Vulcan anvils also use an Arm & Hammer logo, but from the shape & ring of yours it's not a Vulcan.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Irondragon ForgeClay Works
PS

[Chelonian]

Be sure to dress that hammer if you haven't already.

[SinDoc]

I unfortunately did not get around to taking more photos of it. Mechanical room in the house flooded so I was busy all weekend . 

I was unaware that there were anvil manufacturers from Ohio. I never expect Ohio to ever have anything of note regarding it .

 

Towards Chelonia:

What do you mean by "dress"? I know I have seen various post and such to avoid rubber gripped hammers and to favor wooden ones, but beyond that I do not know what you mean. I currently only have two. The ball peen shown, and a 4lb sledge that also has a rubber grip.

[Chelonian]

It means to radius the edges of the hammer with a grinder to your preference. That looks like a brand new hammer, which typically come with a sharp chamfer. Those sharp edges of the chamfer dig into the work (or the anvil) so they are best removed.

[ThomasPowers]

Often you would like the face of the hammer to be a gentle "rocker curve"  to help avoid sharp edged dents in the workpiece when hammering along the length.

All three Ohio anvil manufactures are considered great anvils.  The two in Columbus; one was an offshoot of the other; but it seems they were friendly as they shared anvil bases at times---which is why my Arm and Hammer has a caplet indentation like Trentons do.

[BillyBones]

SinDoc, nothing of note in Ohio? You do know we are the "Heart of it All", right? 

I see you are in Marysville. That is about an hour away. Have you looked up SOFA yet? (Southern Ohio Forge and Anvil). SOFA is over in Troy at the fair grounds. SOFA is home to the most important event of the year, Quad state. 

Anyway hope to see you there and if your ever near Dayton with some time to kill give us a holler and bring your hammer. 

[ThomasPowers]

When I lived in Columbus we formed a group to carpool to SOFA meetings; called ourselves the MOB; Mid Ohio Blacksmiths.  BTW have you met Adlai of Macabee Metals in Columbus?  Old friend of mine.

I don't know if I should mention this but I got my 400+ pound Trenton in Marysville for about 50 cents a pound...back in the late 90's of course.

[SinDoc]

Towards Billy:

I was trying to find places around, but had not come across any as of yet, but in all honestly, I didn't look very hard. I don't typically go west towards Bellfontaine/Troy and such but seems I will have to make an exception.

 

Towards Thomas:

Adlai sounds familiar. I believe he runs the Central Ohio School for Metalwork or is affiliated with it in some way. I have been wanting to take one of their classes, but every time I check they are sold out . 

I have only lived in Marysville for about 6 years. Lived in Columbus for 10 or so. 

Also, as far as the hammer dressing goes, that makes sense. It had been leaving some nasty lines in some of the work I was doing. I will have to do that when I get the chance.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

There is a section in Blacksmith Tools on hammers. Here is but one that addresses dressing the hammer. The sticky's there make for some good reading.

 

[SinDoc]

Thank you for that Dragon. I have been spending the last several days just reading through the site. There is so much stuff to read.

[ThomasPowers]

You do know that I found most of my anvils inside Columbus City limits; still know of some that I wasn't able to contact the owner about...

We used to stop by a fleamarket held at a county fairgrounds between Columbus and Troy on the backroads; I remember times when there was a pile of post vises there for US$20-25 and a "friend" got a mint wagon tongue vise for $20 just two steps in front of me!

[SinDoc]

I am going to have to hit up some flea markets this year and try to find some odds and ends, post vise being one of em. 

[ThomasPowers]

Remember the TPAAAT and ask folks selling "barn junk" about the heavy stuff they left back in the barn!  (Having a picture you can show people can also help!)

[SinDoc]

I finally got around to testing out the anvil yesterday. From the horn to the center of the anvil had really good rebound on a bearing. After the center, it got gradually worse until you past the hardy hole then it is pretty much dead sadly. I don't see myself ever banging on that end of it anyways and have done most of my practice up near the end of the face before the transition to the horn anyways.

I will have to go garage sale/flea market shopping this year to see if I can find another one on the cheap. Wife will definitely enjoy the shopping!

[ThomasPowers]

Remember to talk with *everyone*; found an anvil down here talking with a retired rancher---not a stretch to think he might know where one is; but I also found a great one talking to a 92 year old lady!  So glad I didn't restrict myself to only talking to folks I though might have one!