Living in open places

[Dan N]

 Frosty just noticed your location that is one beautiful area. Do you have acreage there?

[Frosty]

A little bit, we bought a 30 acre lot but a gas company wanted to drill a well and "improve" our land in the process, it would've carved the heart out of the lot.

I just deleted that rant, there's no well on our property and one BLM manager might have needed to seek a new career. One of the very few firing offenses for State employees is lying and doing it in writing makes a person's career doubtful.

Seeing as there was SOME chance the gas company could get right of way declared in the public domain or take hostile possession or some such. Basically force us to spend gobs of $ to fend them off. So we sold half the lot to a developer. It was during the boom so we got more for 15 acres than we paid for 30 and were rid of the gas company for good.

I can see Mt. Denali from the living room when the leaves are off the trees and the Talkeetna range is in plain view. If we wanted to clear more trees we could see the Chugach range and Mt. Susita in the Alaska range. 

It's a sweet piece of land, wish I'd put a tower on the house, though we'd be wishing for an elevator. The view from the roof is WAY better than the second story.

If you get up this way give me a shout, we'll meet up.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Dan N]

I went through the same thing here. They ended up putting their rig across the street and burrowed under my land to suck it out from under me. I was up there when I was 14 I would love to see it again if I can make it that long.

[arkie]

In Texas, mineral rights  and surface rights are separate.  If your family didn't have any mineral rights, and only the surface rights, you are at their mercy...happens all the time.

[Dan N]

This is true but was hysterical watching my bull explain this to them.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

The view from the roof is WAY better

Looks like a widows walk would be great to add.

[Frosty]

We have limited mineral rights, oil and gas aren't among them. It would've been almost worth fencing the land and buying a bull to explain surface rights. An alpha ram sheep can be pretty territorial and don't need as much room to hit full speed. Get a flock used t being hand fed and you're taking your life into their wooly good hooves going in the gate with them.

A widows walk would've been sweet but would require a pretty complete roof remake to pull off now. We have a 23 yro roof that doesn't leak, we like it that way. Maybe a drone and our wide screen TV will do. I've been trying to think of a reason to get a drone past Deb. . . Hmmm.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Dan N]

How about a mountain picture? 

[George N. M.]

Severed mineral rights are something of a legal specialty of mine.  They arise from 2 main situations. 1) someone sells land but retains some or all of the mineral rights.  These can be sold or inherited or transferred in all the ways land can.  Often, they are divided and divided down an inheritance chain until you have someone owning 3/164s of part of the minerals of their great grandfather's farm.  They often do not know that they own this. 2) If a piece of land was originally obtained from the US government via the various homestead acts the federal government may have retained certain mineral rights, typically oil, gas, and coal.  This depends on under what homestead act the land was claimed.  I suspect this is what happened in Frosty's case.  Just about all the coal mined in Wyoming's Powder River Basin is federal coal but private surface owners.

Theoretically, a subsurface owner has to compensate the surface owner for the use of the surface to extract the minerals but this is a very touchy subject about what is "fair." Sometimes the surface owner can get a pretty sweet deal and sometimes they get what the 2d littlest piggy got ("none").  I have seen situations which went both ways.

Often, folk have no idea at all if they own the mineral rights under their surface land.  It is theoretically covered in the closing documents but it is something many folk do not pay any attention to or don't care or don't consider the ramifications of not owning 100% of the minerals.  They are focused on the house or land and never think of the "what if" of someone else owning the minerals.

This is probably a less common problem than it once was with fossil fuels in a gradual decline but we will never see the issue go away in our lifetimes.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[pnut]

Mineral rights and fair compensation is a big deal still here in KY.  The one thing you didn't mention when you were talking about compensation is the owner of the mineral rights can use any means necessary to extract said minerals. I have a family member who retained the mineral rights to his property but his neighbors didn't. I remember not being able to see the sky unless I looked almost straight up. Now he's on the highest part of the mountain. 

Pnut

[Dan N]

They paid me some for damage when they put some pipes in. They told me since it was for surface damage I would not have to pay taxes on it. They lied and turned it in to the IRS when I called them on it they told me to have my lawyer contact theirs.

[Paul TIKI]

I'm glad ya'll were talking about this.  I'm doing some very early looking for places to move.  I love my house and my current mortgage ($0.00) but I'm getting less and less comfortable working for aircraft companies.  They are too sensitive to even the slightest political or financial breeze, and every day has a bit of concern for layoffs and the like.  I'm too young to retire.  Plus, the wife doesn't love the town.

Ideally I'd find a job in a good place and buy a place with an acre or 10.  With that comes the concern of mineral rights if I'm going to a place that has that kind of industry.  Wyoming is on my list of maybe states, along with Nevada, Idaho, Utah, Arkansas, Texas, or Tennessee.  Maybe even New Mexico.  Kansas is OK, but I need some changes in elevation

[ThomasPowers]

Texas ranges from swamp to desert, hurricanes to droughts.  New Mexico's climate is quite elevation dependent and has mountains vs hills.  I can stand on my front porch sweating in a T shirt at 4669' in the valley and see snow on the mountains at 10000'.  It's generally DRY though there are areas that actually have humidity!  A lot of work in NM is government based; having a security clearance is a big plus  Selling our house in Ohio allowed us to put down a substantial down payment on a 2300+ sq ft house on an acre of land with a lot of desert an easy stroll away. (We paid off our house here in 15 years.)

[SLAG]

Mr. Tiki,

Please note that Texas, and Wyoming do not have state income tax!

SLAG.

[ThomasPowers]

I don't know about Wyoming but the property taxes in Texas often more than make up for the lack of income taxes!   I have some unimproved land in AR, 13 acres, and property taxes were around US$20 a year, When I worked within spitting distance of El Paso TX I used to mention that to my coworker paying thousands a year on 1/4 acre...

[Paul TIKI]

Income tax is one consideration, but it's not at the top of the list.  Mountains and Hills are actually slightly ahead of it, plus Dry.  

I've lived in Texas, both Austin and San Angelo and those are OK places.  Austin is an absolute nightmare for driving, but it's a beautiful city for all that.  The cost of living there is also slightly nuts.  San Angelo was nice, but the oil booms of recent years have driven the cost of living there up quite a lot.  The area between San Angelo and Abeline are intriguing to me, but that neck of the woods is a bit harder to find the kind of work I'm looking for. 

I also grew up in Albuquerque so I am familiar with the desert and mountainous climates there.  I have seen some neat chunks of land in Belen really cheap, multiple acres for around 5k, BUT no municipal water, so a well and septic system would have to go in first, followed by Electrical service or Solar, not to mention no idea what kind of internet service.  Site prep alone would be expensive.  Then I found out that there is an HOA according to the listing.  NOPE  not gonna do that.  A shame because the sites look ideal for what I want to do.

The other states represent kind of an adventure in my thinking.

[ThomasPowers]

Can you get a job at NRAO or NM Tech?  Socorro is a small University town about 1.25 hour south of Alb, if you remember.  More reasonable housing...

[Dan N]

Getting ready to sell two places one in Texas then Tennessee. Both have the best elevation in their  area.

[Paul TIKI]

I doubt I have the credentials for NM Tech or NRAO.  BBA in Information systems is as high as I went, and no post grad work at all.  I'm looking more for something along the lines of supply chain, logistics, or process improvements.  I'd find more of that up in ABQ, but that would mean, to me, living in Los Altos or Belen.  Unless they gave a xxxx of a signing bonus, I wouldn't be able to get a decent house in Rio Rancho or Bernalillo for what I could sell my current house for.

Dan, Where in Texas?

[ThomasPowers]

Considering some places in TX are at sea level, that may not be saying much...I remember when my Parents were living in Naarden, the Netherlands; where the elevation was around 10' above sea level.

Only about 7 miles further than Belen on the interstate to get to Moriarty where Robb Gunther set up his smithing school! 

[Dan N]

DFW area 

[George N. M.]

Paul, we moved to Wyoming from eastern Colorado and love it here.  We looked at a number of places after we decided that we didn't want to live out our lives in Ft. Morgan, CO.  You cant afford the CO Front Range unless you want a 1 bedroom condo or have sold a house in CA or HI and have to rent a U-Haul for your money.  We looked strongly at northern NM.  Madelynn has a daughter and grand daughter in Albuquerque.  We could have made it work but it is pretty deserty (I agree with St. Augustine who said, "Paradise is a place where there are trees growing.") and gets hot in the summer.  We looked very strongly at the Salt Lake area but it gets hot in the summer and inversions and thick air pollution in the winter.  There is quite a tech industry in SLC which might be good for you.

Laramie was the golden mean for us.  It is close to outdoor recreation, decent size (abt 32k) with good shopping, and close to larger cities if something is needed (40 minutes to Cheyenne, 1 hr. to Ft. Collins, 2 hrs to Denver.)  Because the Univ. of WY is here (only 4 year school in the state) there is a good cultural scene and it is a college town with all the pluses and negatives that brings.

As mentioned, WY has no state income tax (vs. about 5% in CO) and no sales tax on unprepared food.  Property taxes are medium to low to other places in my experience.  Utilities are much cheaper than CO, like less than half.

Because of the influence of the CO Front Range house prices are creeping up in Cheyenne and Laramie.

However, you may have to do some research on job availability.  WY has been heavy on fossil fuel extraction which is declining.  Also, we do have winter here.  Had a big blizzard yesterday.  There was probably 20 yards visibility when I got up yesterday morning.  Drifts up to 6 feet.  I still haven't finished shoveling a path/trench to the shop. I have never found the winters to be too hard in WY but they can be long.  Primo summers, though.  The all time record high in Laramie is 94 degrees.

If you want to make a recon trip to this area once it is safe to travel let me know and I can direct or show you some places.  PM me if you are headed this way.

Good luck and let us know if we can help.  I'd certainly want to be in one of the places you have listed rather than where you are.  You are going to have to balance job availability with desirability of the location. Being semi-retired my income is independent of my location which gives much more flexibility.

IMO, where your spouse is happy is the biggest consideration.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Frosty]

The parents of the people we bought our land from homesteaded a section and once they passed the kids started dividing into reasonable size pieces. Oil gas and coal rights were retained by the Feds. We have surface entry rights though and nobody can enter without written permission. The gas company wanting to drill on our land really hemmed and hawed when we MIGHT consider allowing them access provided they put the well where we said AND provided us with natural gas in exchange. They didn't even counter offer. The gas well about 1,000' down the hill can suck all they want and I'm good with that. 

20 hours ago, Dan N said:

How about a mountain picture? 

Make me hunt through my file folders why don't you?! Harder than you'd think, I have to manually select file and folder every tie I save a pic or the stupid computer assigns a random digit file name and a folder. <grrrr> MAN I miss DOS!

Frosty The Lucky.

The first pic is Mt. Denali from the south. This is from the best view point almost anywhere you can drive, maybe 15 miles from Talkeetna. (the town)

This is Denali fro the north side but it reminded me of a Bob Ross painting so I took the snap.

This is Denali from about the same angle without trees. This part of the Parks Hwy is in rolling hills and meadow and stand timber so open views tend to last a few seconds as you whiz by.

This is a young brown bear who was feeling cornered by all the vehicles stopped to look at the bear and it was about ready to panic so we kept on going or I would've gotten a better pic. It crossed back into the sunlight about the time I couldn't reach any farther back. It didn't get hit by a car so it's all good.

 

[ThomasPowers]

I have often thought that Frosty lived in a state of Denali!

[Frosty]

Depends on the language.

HEY WAIT, is that a SHOT!? 

No I don't!

Frosty The Lucky.