Just starting

[Frosty]

12 hours ago, Paul TIKI said:

I suppose if I build a retort I could route the smoke through a chamber and do a brisket or some pork shoulders and just share with the neighbors

Don't do that if you're burning pallets, they're treated to prevent pests from hitching a ride between countries. 

If there's an oil refinery close you might be able to get petroleum coke. Pet coke burns the same, dense, hard to light and keep going but it's HOT and doesn't smoke.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Glenn]

Pallets with an IPPC (International Plant Protection Convention) stamp are used for international shipping. These stamps typically include:

• The IPPC symbol, which is located on the left side of the stamp
• The 2-letter country code followed by a company registration number, which is located on the right side of the stamp
• The treatment code, which is also located on the right side of the stamp

Treatment Codes:

There are four common treatment codes that tell what method of treatment the pallet has received:

• HT: Heat Treatment
• MB: Methyl Bromide
• DB: Debarked
• KD: Kiln Dried

If you find a MB: Methyl Bromide stamp, leave it alone, do not even pick it up.

[BillyBones]

There is a place here that deals with wood stoves mainly but also does coal stoves. They also sell anthracite. So a call to a stove dealer may help.

My local TSC does not keep there coal in a store room during off months. They just have a big tent thing out back they keep it in out back of the building. So it is the same price all year. I got to know the guys at the TSC pretty well, i was in there almost everyday when i worked for the AAMCO next door to it. My boss was paying the car parts place $5 or $6 dollars for a couple bolts. I pointed out to him that i could run over and get those same bolts from TSC for about 50 cents. But instead of him buying a couple hundred bolts (3/8-16 x 2" were mostly what i got) he would send me over and get 1 or 2 everyday. 

Do not burn any kind of treated lumber. The wood will release some serious nasty toxins into the air and on top of that the ash will contain potentially lethal levels of arsenic. 

Many localities have an ordnance that you can not even put treated lumber in the trash, it must be taken to a land fill and disposed of. I assume that is becuase many trash companies incinerate the trash.

[bluerooster]

That HT code on pallets is a pretty interesting process. And I seriously doubt there are very many pallets at all, and none in the U.S.  The heat treatment goes way beyond just kiln dried, and takes it just a step or two before becoming charcoal.   It's put into an autoclave, and cooked at high temp until 100% of the sap and sugars are gone.  Nothing left for fungus and bugs to eat, and very dry, ~5% moisture content.  As a result it's rot, and bug resistant with zero added chemicals.   Neat stuff, actually smells like it's been in a fire.  Very light wood looks like it's been stained dark, and the color is same all the way through the board. 

Here's a picture of heat treated Ash, I installed this on inside, and outside of this house.

[ThomasPowers]

Not my experience with HT marked pallets; no colour change!   From a pallet company's website:  they are heated to a core temperature of 132.8 degF, 56 degC; Not enough to change the exterior colour.   

I used to work at a factory just over the border in Mexico and we had stacks of pallets all over the place; all marked with the HT and none discoloured.

Having wood heated to produce a colour change is fairly common; Alexander's chandeliers are a great example of this from IFI.

[BillyBones]

Blue, i think you messed up. Flooring is not suppose to go on the ceiling.

[bluerooster]

Tell that to the architect.

Coke is more expensive than coal because you have to pay someone to turn the coal into coke.  Or you could buy coal, and turn it into coke in the forge as you go. But the first fire will be awful at the start. Lots of smoke, and stink, until it makes coke, at which time there will be very little smoke, and what little there is will be burned before it leaves the forge.  just remember to leave a good amount of coke at the end of the session, for a smokeless start next time.

[Frosty]

If there's an oil refinery within reasonable drive time, petroleum coke is a byproduct and not unreasonably priced. 

You can coke coal in a closed / indirect method, retort with little to no smoke. A propane weed burner to get it started and the neighbors shouldn't notice a thing but the sound.

Frosty The Lucky.

[arkie]

Petroleum coke sure didn't work for me!  A friend works the towboats and barges on the Ohio and Miss. rivers.  He brought me a big bucket of pet coke once to try out. (1) very hard to light and keep burning, (2) burned up really fast and (3) emitted a strong, bad smell even though the burned fumes were going up the flue pipe.  Bad stuff.  Almost gave me a bad headache.  I discarded the remainder.

[Frosty]

I would have too Arkie!

The pet coke the bronze caster club member buys to feed the cupla iron melter works well in a forge. It's harder to light and you do have to keep on it or it'll go out, you have maybe a minute after shutting the air off but it's best to keep a little blast going. It burns clean and almost odorless.

I hadn't thought of that, different refineries have different quality residue. Makes sense, maybe see if you can get a handful for a sample to see if it makes noxious smoke or fumes?

Frosty The Lucky.

[arkie]

I agree that the refineries will have different grades(?) of pet coke.  No refineries near NW Arkansas though...even if there were, my bad experience with the pet coke soured me on the stuff.  I'll stick to coal or charcoal.  The smell of coal burning brings back memories of the Denver and Rio Grande Western railroad in Durango-Silverton (which I've ridden several times)!

[Bantou]

On 3/3/2021 at 9:56 PM, Beowulf300 said:

 I am starting out to try my hand at blacksmithing with my grandson , I am planning on using... coal , which I believe I can get online from Dallas. . 

Depending on where you are located in DFW, it might be worth making a trip down to Homestead Heritage in Waco. They order coal in by the train load for their smithy and to sell to local smiths. I picked up 100lbs a couple weeks ago for $32+ tax. The size of the coal can vary some but the current batch is a good nut (?) size. The pieces range between a peanut and a walnut in size.

 

You need to call ahead though. They keep the coal in a coal pile and will need time to get it bagged up. I usually call a couple days before I’m planning on heading down there.  

[arkie]

The Waco coal would come out at about $640/ton at those prices.  The Vinita mine in Oklahoma, as I understand is shut down mining but selling Utah coal for $225/ton, one ton min., bagged.  That price might be worth the trip up there (about 5 hrs. each way from DFW area).

[Bantou]

I’m honestly not sure you would come out that much ahead by the time you count in food, fuel, and possibly a hotel. Not to mention having to commit an entire day/day and a half just to getting coal. You are looking at a minimum of $150 in fuel alone. Plus, I don’t know many hobbiests that need or can reasonably store a ton of coal. Assuming 50lb bags, that’s 40 bags of coal. I doubt many of us would go through half of that in a year. If you were doing a group buy where you could split the cost among several people or smithing full time, it would absolutely be worth it. As a single hobbiest though, it would be a tough sell for me. 

[Frosty]

Not worth a day trip to have a year's worth of coal in the bunker? Let's see, hit the road at 6:am have lunch and load up, short break and hit the road home. Home by 5-5:30p. Call it 12 hrs. 

Sounds like a deal to me. The last coal I got, two of us had to collect it in the decommissioned strip mine o Castle Mtn.  We spent a good 8 hrs. bustin hump, scrambling probably 30' up and down the steep sides of trench, packing it down and back to the truck a bucket at a time. We didn't get half a ton either. 

We've done it more than once. $225/ton and a day trip, split fuel and driving? Oh BABY! 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Glenn]

Go for loose coal in the pick up truck. Loads easy and you are back on the road as soon as it is paid for.

Once you get home, a 55 gallon drum can handle 400-500 pounds of loose coal, so that is 4-5 drums of coal.  If you get drums with lids the coal stays dry.  Put the drums on a pallet to keep the drums off the ground, and that is 2 drums to a pallet and just 2 pallets of space.

Coal is easy to shovel and you can have it unloaded and in drums quicker than you think.

 

Stopped on the way home this evening and behind a building were 8 steel drums and 2 plastic drums.  Ask permission and the fellow said take all you want, free.  Loaded up the 2 plastic drums for a project and made note that the steel drums are there if needed.  

 

[Bantou]

On 4/24/2021 at 12:57 AM, Frosty said:

Not worth a day trip to have a year's worth of coal in the bunker? Let's see, hit the road at 6:am have lunch and load up, short break and hit the road home. Home by 5-5:30p. Call it 12 hrs. We've done it more than once. $225/ton and a day trip, split fuel and driving?

The convenience is worth the extra money to me. I can pick up what I need in less than two hours vs taking a whole day for more coal than I can reasonably store in a neighborhood. If I had one or two more people to split it with, then yeah absolutely worth it.

[bluerooster]

$225/ ton.  $30/50pound bag, $20 profit/bag, 40 bags $800 gross, deduct $200 to go get,  $600 clear profit.  allowing cost of bags, and filling them.

[arkie]

The Vinita $225/ton price is quite high.  Before the Vinita mine shut down recently, I was buying my coal in bulk from them for $70/ton....boy, those were the good old days for sure!!!

[SLAG]

Mr. Arkie,

Given your previous pricing experience with the Vinita mine. Perhaps that is the reason they shut down?

So sayeth,

the SLAG.

[arkie]

Mr.  SLAG, as has been postulated here on IFI, there may have been another compelling reason, and I will therefore comment no further.

[BillyBones]

I pay $215 a ton, delivered. Some of the blocks weigh in at over a 100# but once you learn how to break coal it is no big deal. Most are about the size of a football though. 

[Bantou]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:07 PM, arkie said:

The Waco coal would come out at about $640/ton at those prices.  The Vinita mine in Oklahoma, as I understand is shut down mining but selling Utah coal for $225/ton, one ton min., bagged.  That price might be worth the trip up there (about 5 hrs. each way from DFW area).

After gaining more experience, I have re-evaluated my opinion. Any idea if they are still open for business? Google shows them to be permanently closed. 

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

There’s a legal and political mess here in Oklahoma right now over the coal resources between the state and the federal governments, we probably don’t need to delve deeper into that conversation  on here so I’ll just leave it at that,

But I think some of the bituminous coal mines south of me are still loading out, around stigler Oklahoma last I heard, I’ve been using coal from there and I really like it, 

Ill call around after the holiday and see if they can and will still sell,

Ive been meaning to do that anyways because I’d like to get about four tons hauled up here, 

[natkova]

On 3/6/2021 at 9:31 AM, Glenn said:

Pallets with an IPPC (International Plant Protection Convention) stamp are used for international shipping. These stamps typically include:

• The IPPC symbol, which is located on the left side of the stamp
• The 2-letter country code followed by a company registration number, which is located on the right side of the stamp
• The treatment code, which is also located on the right side of the stamp

Treatment Codes:

There are four common treatment codes that tell what method of treatment the pallet has received:

• HT: Heat Treatment
• MB: Methyl Bromide
• DB: Debarked
• KD: Kiln Dried

If you find a MB: Methyl Bromide stamp, leave it alone, do not even pick it up.

I ususaly see this wheat symbol at our pallets  in company where i work to pack food.