Beowulf300 Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 I am starting out to try my hand at blacksmithing with my grandson , I am planning on using an 18 wheeler brake drum as a forge and coal , which I believe I can get online from Dallas. Any advice or help is greatly appreciated. Thanks i also have a Hay Budden anvil but the face has a piece broken off. Since it is tool steel I don’t think I can weld a piece back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Yes; ditch the semi wheel! Way too deep and very difficult to cut slots in the sides to push stock in. The workpiece needs to go in fairly horizontally NOT at a steep angle. I had a student who thought bigger was better and tried using a semi drum First he had the tuyere at the bottom and couldn't get the middle of a work piece into the hot spot. Next he filled it with dirt till it was about as deep as a regular car or pickup drum and put the tuyere there. But it was so heavy he couldn't move it around. When he moved he abandoned it at his old place. How about building a JABOD out of a thrown out propane grill? It even has a cover built in for when it rains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf300 Posted March 4, 2021 Author Share Posted March 4, 2021 Thanks, I hadn’t thought about the drum being to deep. I will look into the JABOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 I agree with Thomas, the time I tried to build a forge from a large truck brake drum, it turned out to be worthless. Another forge to consider is the 55 forge, bottom and side blast. Both the JABOD and the 55 forge are easy to build and will work. Also reading through the pinned threads will get you off & running., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf300 Posted March 4, 2021 Author Share Posted March 4, 2021 Thanks for the help, would a two burner propane forge be a better route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Good Morning Bee, Welcome and good luck with the family. A very common mistake is to think you need a big Forge. K.I.S.S. A single or a double burner that can be blocked to be a single burner, will work well. You normally only work about 3-4" at a time, why waste the heat. Good Luck, Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Yes, no, maybe. Who knows what's going to suit you and your Grandson's needs? A solid fuel and a propane forge are two entirely different pieces of equipment. A JABOD or 55 forge are easy to build and produce good localized heat. Propane forges tend to get everything close to the opening HOT and they get everything inside really HOT so processes like setting rivets takes time to master. Start with a small forge and see if you need a larger one once you get a good handle on basic blacksmithing. Anybody who's been at this a while has old forges gathering dust or they're rebuilt them repeatedly. I have two operational propane forges currently but keep thinking about building the next one. It's an addiction and we'll help you with it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Welcome aboard. Here's a collection of links that helped me get started almost immediately. Glad to meet you, be safe, and remember it's supposed to be fun. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul TIKI Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Welcome aboard. I heartily second pnut's thought's on getting started on the cheap. It's pretty much what I did. The thought of spending a couple hundred on a propane forge plus a bunch of money on an anvil and then the hammers and tongs stopped me from getting started for a long time. Then I found this site and discovered there was no reason not to get started and that it doesn't have to cost a lot to get going. The only thing I have shelled out cash for has been the lump charcoal. Everything else so far has come from stuff I had just lying around the house, so to speak. I have a JABOD side blast forge made from an old junked propane grill so I can close it up when done working and it protects it from the rain. The air supply is a bathroom exhaust fan. The anvil is an old slab of pig iron my dad lugged around for years and I got it when he passed (pig iron is what he called it, it's more likely wrought iron). I started with a ball peen hammer and then my son let be use a cross peen from harbor freight. Channel locks and vice grips that you may already have work ok for beginning tongs. Since I got going last fall I have expended about $50 from a Harbor freight gift card to buy a couple of hammers and an angle grinder (which I have other uses for), but really, not a lot of money spent. So I was able to start on a shoestring, and if I gave it up (not gonna unless health or other issues make me) I wouldn't have a bunch of expensive stuff gathering dust. For the future, I'm thinking about using plans to build a propane forge, but that will be after I build up some some sort of shop shelter. Hopefully I'll have that together by the time my own grandson is old enough to take an interest. As for your anvil I think the other, more experienced smiths, could offer an opinion or ideas. From what I have seen in the anvil threads it may just be a matter of not beating on that broken part of the anvil. I wouldn't know myself, but they might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf300 Posted March 4, 2021 Author Share Posted March 4, 2021 Thank you for the advice. I do have a 55 gal. drum so that seems the way to start out, also have plenty hammers and vise grips. Another question, coal or hardwood lump charcoal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Is good bituminous coal readily available in your area? Ease of access is what determined the fuel I started with which was charcoal. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 The 55 Forge is such that it can be configured or reconfigured to most anything you want. Bricks can make a small forge in the pan, a few more bricks can make a deep fire, a horizontal pipe can become a side blast forge, and the options are only limited by your imagination. Last gathering of friends the 55 Forge was used as the fire pit surrounded by chairs. No burn spots in the yard that way. The JABOD is suited more toward a small fire but can be configured to what ever you need. Solid fuels can be most anything you to which you have access. I have used dimensional lumbar, fire wood, etc for fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I would say to use coal or coke, if you can get it. It has a much higher heat value per unit of weight and has much more of an organized literature/knowledge for how to manage a fire. I use coke more than coal because I got in the habit when I was forging near neighbors. Coke produces very little smoke and odor. The big difference is that a coke fire will quickly go out if you don't keep some air flow to it. That is not a problem if you are using an electric blower that you can leave running on low. If you are using a hand crank blower you have to manage your work differently. If you are not actively forging you have to step over and give the crank a turn every couple of minutes. You can leave it long enough to go into the house and get a cold drink or relieve yourself but you can't leave it for long enough to have lunch. Also, it is a bit more difficult to start a coke fire than coal. That said, there is BAD coal around. I've used some and it was not a pleasant experience. A good blacksmithing coal is a good coking coal. Wyoming is the largest coal producing state but most of it is marginal for blacksmith purposes. It is not good coking coal. Even if you are burning coal you are really burning coke. It's just that you are making coke around the edge of the fire by baking the green coal and driving off the volatiles in it and then pulling it into the center of the fire. I'm sure that there are farrier supply places in the DFW area which can supply either coal or coke. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf300 Posted March 5, 2021 Author Share Posted March 5, 2021 Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Per unit of WEIGHT charcoal and coal produce close to the same number of BTUs; however per unit of VOLUME coal has a lot more BTUs as it is much denser. Charcoal has been used to forge with for over 3000 years, Coal for about 1000; where people often have issues using charcoal is that they are trying to use it in forges designed for coal. A bit like putting diesel into your gas engine and then claiming vehicles can't run on diesel as you tried it in a gas engine and had trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul TIKI Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Oddball question, but why is coke so much more expensive than coal? I can't even seem to find either near me. Since I forge in a residential area I figure coke would be a better option than coal, but it seems like it would be very expensive to run my forge at 50 to 60 buck a bag from centaur forge. How long does coal or coke last vs. Charcoal. If I want the heat, I seem to go through fuel pretty fast with charcoal. Of course, If I can build a retort to make my own charcoal it becomes a bit more moot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I have found coal to be an odd fellow. How long it burns depends. I get my coal from the same supplier that gets it from the same place. The last load of coal i got a couple hunks about the size of a football and i was good for most of the day. This new batch i got seems to take 3 almost 4 hunks that size. It also seems to make more clinker. If you want to use coal and are in a residential area try getting anthracite. There is a thread about working with it. It burns way cleaner than bituminous. You must keep constant airflow on it though or it will go out and it is a little harder to get going. Tractor Supply was selling it last year for $7 a bag, 40# i think. It amazes me that living in one of the largest coal producing areas of one of the largest coal producing countries how hard it is to find coal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul TIKI Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I found the coal on TSC's website, but not available near me. Anthracite was indeed a bit over 7 bucks per bag, but there was no option for ship to store and no way to ship directly to me. I guess I need to actually go inside and ask, then come home and build a coal forge Or I could just focus on working the charcoal and getting it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Shed Forge Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 54 minutes ago, Paul TIKI said: Of course, If I can build a retort to make my own charcoal it becomes a bit more moot... There's no building involved in a can-in-barrel retort. I bought a 55 gallon barrel on FB marketplace for $20 and picked up an empty metal trashcan someone had just sitting at their curb! (just kidding I bought that too). After I started telling friends and family that I make charcoal as fuel, many were happy to just give me their extra timber, especially in the summer when everyone is trimming and removing trees. A 30 gallon trash can produces about 15-20lbs of charcoal, depending on the type of wood used, in my experience. For tinder, I drive around business parks/complexes looking for pallets and other scrap wood if my usual hook-up has none at the time. Most villages don't like you burning "construction material" and the desiccation aspect of pyrolysis causes a good deal of smoke at one point, so I choose to char at night under cover of the "dark" suburban sky. Never had a problem with neighbors as bonfires are a common backyard occurrence around here. I should add, when using pallets, you will be dealing with the MANY nails/staples/screws that hold the pallets together, so a sifting and magnetic-collection process is necessary to avoid issues in the firepot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 If you go to TSC ask for the manager. I had to buy a couple bags 2 years ago i think. I went in one day and the guy there got me what i wanted. About a week later i went back and asked to get some and was told they dont carry coal. So is says what about the 10 or so tons you have out back. They called the manager and was surprised to learn they did indeed carry coal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul TIKI Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I suppose if I build a retort I could route the smoke through a chamber and do a brisket or some pork shoulders and just share with the neighbors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Shed Forge Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 There 'ya go. That would be a cool build. I even make charcoal for neighbors to grill with sometimes. I wouldn't use pallets in the case of the smoker though haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Welcome aboard, Beowulf300. You're asking the right questions and taking the advice as it comes; keep it up, and you'll do well. 54 minutes ago, BillyBones said: If you go to TSC ask for the manager. I had to buy a couple bags 2 years ago i think. I went in one day and the guy there got me what i wanted. About a week later i went back and asked to get some and was told they dont carry coal. So is says what about the 10 or so tons you have out back. They called the manager and was surprised to learn they did indeed carry coal. Sometimes my local TSC will put the coal on sale in the spring, so they don't have to do as much to put it away in the storeroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 I have to buy a whole pallet of coal to get the TSC near me to order any. They got taken for a ride a few years back by some mennonites. One guy talked them into ordering a couple pallets. He didn't come back to get any but in the spring another possibly unrelated mennonite guy showed up and bought it all at a discount. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 The reason that coke is harder to source is that it's pretty much a dedicated supply chain here in the USA going from coal mine to coke furnace to blast furnace. If you want to by a thousand tons if probably be easy to get and cheap. Some blacksmith supply places carry it but you have to pay for the hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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