Newbie introduction

[Will-I-am]

Just wanted to introduce myself to this forum.  I studied the advice of the old timers for the last few weeks before constructing my first forge.  I converted my 10 year old firepit enclosed by 20ft diameter hut with open hole in center for smoke to a forge.  First I dug out firepit ash and sloped walls to center then lined with flagstone.  Then with 1" tuyere pipe fed in 100cfm air with 25$ hvac booster 4" fan with variable control.  Since my property has lots of elm trees, I used bone dry split elm wood to achieve yellow 2000 degree forge temperature on 3/4" stock.  The anvil was a old solid hitch on a round of wood.  I have since ordered a $300 60kg steel acciaio anvil and I will mount on "wrist high" wood round as advised in forum.  I tried to improve the firepit (JABOD) by adding a divider wall in the center of the firepit perpendicular to the tuyere, but unfortunately I packed the elm wood charcoals too tight and either clogged the tuyere or just eliminated any airspaces in the coal bed and wasn't able to achieve the yellow metal but only orange.  Next time I will first vacuum out the tuyere and move the wall back more and not pack the coals as much.  I want to get the yellow color to white.   I have 2 sticks of 3/4 metal with flattened ends and flattened 6" perpendicular to make tongs; I want to pound hole through for the pin instead of drilling.  That bright yellow metal color in my hand awakened something.  Any improvements are appreciated.  

[ThomasPowers]

Are your flagstones heat safe?   How is the smoke handling?  You may want to build a side sucker chimney.  An elm log was a traditional stump for blacksmithing due to it's resistance to splitting. What kinds of thing do you want to forge?  How are you sourcing steel?   Have you contacted the local ABANA affiliate yet?

BTW is that Washington State USA or one of the 30 towns/cities named Washington in the USA alone?

[Will-I-am]

Mr. Powers,I don't know if the flagstones are heat safe, they were surface buried on my property from probably 40 years ago.  I hope they don't explode.  The smoke goes out the 3ft wide hole in the center of the hut, but a chimney will be in the works in the future.  I have built many fires in the pit in the last 10 years and it is slightly smokey, but if I set the tuyere fan on low it works good for just fire and set on high for forging.  Cool thing is after forging I put the a gallon of coals in metal bucket and haul up to my smoker and 2 hours later delicious pork roast.  Now working on my tongs but want to migrate to wood carving adze and other various blades.  Not tried to source steel yet or contact any affiliates just whatever scraps I find laying around on my property.  I am just wetting my beak now.  Just excited to see the glowing yellow color for now.  Thanks.

[BillyBones]

Welcome. Sounds like you have been bitten by the bug. Next thing you know you will be going to flea markets and stopping at every garage sale you come across. Standing in the hardware section looking at things and asking "How can i use that at the forge?" 

Anyway, stay safe and have fun.

[ThomasPowers]

Currently my coal forge chimney is a 10" diameter spiral seamed HVAC duct I got used for US$4 IIRC.  I put a little apron round the base to enclose the firepot about 2/3 and that can be pushed up the pipe if I need room for stock to go out the back or side to side.

Keep an eye out for real wrought iron if you site has old metal lurking about!  I've had damage from an exploding fire pit rock before when I was in scouts around 50 years ago and so am careful to test rocks before using them now. (Heat in a large fire that NOTHING is close to, (including yourself) and the ground is damp from a previous rain works.

[Will-I-am]

Funny, everything metal I look at now is graded for potential use.  I have fired the flagstone to forge temps three times now, so hopefully cooked out the steam that can explode.  I always wear eye protection.  Very excited when 132 lb anvil is delivered friday, the fedex guy is going to be angry.  Want to build chimney out of stacked rock with refractory cement or sand/fireclay cement.  I built 2x20ftx8ft high stacked rock walls last year on the base of my dome home last year.  I like building with rock.  I picture the firepit with 3 arches of rock with rock stacked chimney maybe of pallet of 4"square flatstone.  Also have remnants of rock 3" round pile I used to build 2 walls that could be mixed with refractory cement/sand/fireclay and poured over forms.  Could use beachball and old pipe as a form.  I want to perfect the aspects of the firepit for highest forge temps first.  I want white hot metal.

[JHCC]

Welcome aboard!

[ThomasPowers]

I would really suggest NOT going masonry until you have worked enough with various designs to build what works right for YOU the first go around!  Nothing sadder than having to take a sledge to a hard built masonry structure that doesn't work right for you to do it all over again.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Will, glad to have you. You don't need something special to get steel past melting temperature in a charcoal fire. I suggest you get used to how it works without changing it every time you fire it up. Getting good heat from a solid fuel fire is mostly a fire management issue, a little knowledge and repeated practice cures it.

Yellow heat is well above 2,000f, lava is typically a bit hotter than 2,000f and is orange. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Will-I-am]

Frosty, thanks for the advice.  When I got the bright yellow metal on my first forging, I didn't use a divider wall in my firepit.  Just 3ft wide firepit one ft deep with coals. The profile picture is my first attempt.  But on my second attempt I used the divider wall to tighten up the coals and split the wood into skinnier pieces but only obtained orange, weird?   Interesting some blacksmith color charts show yellow at 2000 and others at 2500degrees?  I am going to back up the divider a few more inches (widen) and use one side to make the fire and drag coals to the tuyere side next time.  I'll try not to pack the coals down too much, may had clogged tuyere, will vacuum.  The ash seems to cover the coals, does this lower temp?  The tuyere is 1' from bottom of the pit.  I would think skinner split pieces of wood like 1"x2" would be better?  I need to get the tongs yellow again where I will hammer through a punch for the pin.  Hopefully my tongs will be finished this weekend and I will post a completed pic. 

[ThomasPowers]

One foot from bottom of the firebox? 

[Will-I-am]

Sorry typo, one inch tuyere from bottom of firebox.  I followed advice from JABOD.  Thanks for correction.

[Frosty]

I'm not the only one who appreciates a good typo. Some of the best straight lines are innocent typos. 

I've downloaded or looked at so many temperature color charts I've given up on finding an accurate one. There are too many variables to make charts workable: Everybody sees colors differently, Cameras and print aren't very accurate then shove it through a couple few computers and ? ? ?, How about light conditions, are they the same in YOUR shop as the originators? 

I just go by the feel of the steel under my hammer after guesstimating the temp by color. After a while I don't really care what color it is outside broad parameters, I do fine in a darkish shop or broad sunlight. I MUCH prefer good light in the shop, I like to see things and can estimate temps without dim lighting. Heck dim light makes colors LOOK hotter than they are, incandescent yellow is literally blinding in a dim shop. White hot is a buzz word not an actual temperature. If you got steel literally to white it'd be IIRC vaporized. Molten steel is high yellow.

Ground forges like you're building have been in use since humans started working metal. Take a look at 3rd world blacksmith videos for professional working charcoal forges like you're refining for yourself. Keep it simple and NO don't pack the coals down in a charcoal fire. Gentle taps no harder than necessary to get the fire to settle burned out voids. I rarely have to do more than run my fire rake across the top to get it settle nicely. 

Whatever size wood you use try to cut monodimensional pieces, 2" x 2" x 2" or close though I've used a campfire as a forge with expected results from a charcoal. 

Keep at it, one day the light will come on in a DUH moment, you'll give yourself a slap on the forehead and you'll have it. Honest.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Will-I-am]

Thanks Frosty, I will not pack the coals but lightly rake the surface only.  I have two types of dry wood available.  One in dry elm cut with chainsaw to 18" lengths, these can be split down to 2"x2" but will be 18" long.   The other option is for $20 I go to the local sawmill and they load up reject 1"x10" bundles weighing half ton; one is tarped now of pine.  I can cut these any length.  So for the 1"x10", what length would you recommend would be ideal that I cut for best charcoal conversion?  I need to get the tongs hot enough to pound a punch through for the pin, so I imagine bright yellow?

[Frosty]

You don't need ideal wood size but if you're cutting for the forge cut the rounds shorter. I just picked 2 x 2 out of the air but I wouldn't go larger than 4  4 max. 18" is inconvenient in a JABOD type forge, wood tends to ALL get burning. When I 'm burning wood I liked to stack it high rather than long so the hot gasses rising off the fire pyrolized the wood without setting it on fire.

How long is the heart of your forge fire? That's how long I'd cut the 1 x 10s and split it down to 1-2" too platey and air won't flow through it well and you want air and flame to flow through it without much restriction. 

If I had access to half ton loads of 1 x 10 pine I'd be cutting it to fit the wood stove, great for taking the morning chill off the place and get the split birch going. 

Hardwoods like elm will last longer in the forge where softwoods like pine burn faster but hotter. Once it's pyrolized (charcoal) whatever wood is relatively pure carbon and lb for lb exactly the same energy. There are some differences, hardwoods have a greater mineral content so leave more ash and I suppose have a lower energy output per lb but it's not significant enough for ME to worry about. That is just to ME, other folks mileage varies.

Getting yellow heat in your forge will be a matter of practice. Get a notebook and keep notes of what you did, why and what happened. This is trouble shooting so CHANGE ONLY ONE THING AT A TIME, test and compare the results to previous tests in the notebook. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Will-I-am]

My firepit is a 4' circle with 6" rocks around the edge.  The north, east and west sides slope toward the center of the pit and are lined with 4" thick flagstone.  The south side of pit is also flagstone but sloping less extreme to hold material more flat.  The 1" tuyere pipe enters the pit 1" off the bottom from northwest.  The total pit depth is one foot.  I was using a rock divider wall 1' perpendicular from the tuyere in an attempt to make the firebox smaller and tighter.  The yellow color in the picture was obtained without a divider and using elm 4"x4"x 18".  Trying to improve I used the divider wall to tighten up the pit width but ended up packing the coals too much and choking the tuyere and only obtaining orange color.  Now I will use the divider wall but back off a few inches making the coal area a little wider.  Not packing the coals and lightly raking the top only.  Splitting the 18"elm to 2" pieces and using some 1"x10" cut 12" which is rough length of the hot area.  I was using the fresh fire on east side of pit and scraping to the west side where the tuyere is.  Did no know that pyrolizing is charcoaling, very interesting that rising hot gasses that don't set wood on fire is the key.  This saturday will be the next session.  My new 60kg anvil will be here friday, very excited. Take notes too.  Thanks for the tips.