Propane forge issue

[Fighting_fires]

Hello all. Brand new to the hobby and have been having some issues with my forge. I have a top mount burner and due to this I keep developing leaks. I'm hoping you all can help me find a solution. 

 

I'm assuming I'm having problems because the weight of the line and gravity are playing havoc, I was thinking maybe I can just have it come 90 degrees off to the side, that way the hose doesn't have to come up and then go off to the side to go back down to fuel source, but im open to any suggestions you more experienced folk have. 

You can see where the o ring separated here, but I had the same problem with a different fuel line as well. Sorry if this is super simple and  just not getting it! 

[Mikey98118]

Just install a little post and hook on the forge top to hold the fuel line's weight

[MaxwellB]

Mikey's got the right idea, probably the quickest and easiest. Another thing you could do is get a 90 degree elbow and put that on the end of the line so your propane hose is coming in at 3 o'clock instead of 12. Add the post and hook, and you're golden.

[Kexel Werkstatt]

My line is not vertical but this is what I did... hard to see but look at the closest corner of the cart you'll see i just took some stock and made a "hose support/holder" hook thingy and mounted it. 

[Fighting_fires]

This was along the lines of what I was thinking as well. If I move the line away from the heat source, and don't have quite as much pressure on it, won't be a problem. 

 

That being said, I dont have a clue what I would even look for. What type of elbow? Does it just have to be propane rated, or is that even a concern Would brass be the best bet? Feel free to pretend I'm completely ignorant lol I've done some digging but I'm either using wrong terminology, or missing it. 

Thanks for the quick reaponse!

Kexel, what type of line do you have gojng to the burner? 

[Kexel Werkstatt]

Mine is just the standard rubber style hose, and luckily it came with the 90 degree elbow they are talking about so it was easier to just "prop" or support the hose and direct it the way I wanted. I an envious of your braided hose. I am in the market for one as they are sturdier.  

 

Here is a picture of the elbow if that helps.

[Fighting_fires]

It does help! I'm VERY green to all of this, so I'm happy to look at what works for you. 

Commercial link removed per TOS.

Thats the line I bought, they have a few different links. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Mod30
Commercial link

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Take the hose off the straight fitting it's attached to, take that straight fitting off the burner. Then take that straight fitting to a real plumbing store (not a big box store) and tell the counter person you need a 90° fitting.

[Kexel Werkstatt]

FF - you can say where you got the braided hose, you just can't put a live link. 

These guys give good advice. 

[Fighting_fires]

Irondragon- now those are some simple, easy to follow instructions! Thank you! Thats what I'm going to do. 

Kexel- ah gotcha. It was on xxxxxx for $25 with a regulator and pressure gauge. 

 

Any thoughts on reattached the braided line afterwards? I'm assuming that's crimped on there somehow? I haven't taken anything apart further to look at it. 

[Frosty]

18 hours ago, Fighting_fires said:

I'm assuming I'm having problems because the weight of the line and gravity are playing havoc, I was thinking maybe I can just have it come 90 degrees off to the side, that way the hose doesn't have to come up and then go off to the side to go back down to fuel source,

Another solution would be to turn your forge on it's side and put some support under the hose. Typically propane hose, is 3/8" FPT so making it up to plumbing is just a matter of buying the right shape and size to do what you wish. It's not that hard with a little practice. Honest.

That forge liner looks like uncoated ceramic blanket. I believe you breath enough hazardous air professionally there's no good reason to do it at home too. The ceramic fibers the refractory blanket is made from become brittle from forging temperatures and the vitrified fibers break off and float around in your breathable. The unvitrified fibers come loose and float around too and are really unhealthy. Think mesotheleoma or silicosis, unhealthy. 

I don't know if it was rigidized fro the maker or not, I wouldn't take the chance. Fumed silica mixed with a couple drops of food coloring and clean tap water and spritzed on will help encapsulate fibers while strengthening the blanket. The food coloring let you see where and how much has been covered with rigidizer. Butter the blanket with plain water first so the rigidizer can penetrate, collect where fibers cross and bond properly. Buttering is a common mason's practice for anything that's boing to be mortared in place.

Next step is a thin coat of a high alumina refractory applied over the rigidized blanket. do NOT use refractory cement or mortar!! They are designed to stick bricks together and will not last long in a direct flame contact environment. High alumina refractory is more resistant to the very chemically active propane flame and byproducts but more importantly is resistant to the caustic nature of molten borax based forge welding fluxes. Molten borax dissolve ceramic refractory blanket like cotton candy in hot water. It's awesome to watch . . . if it's not YOUR forge.

The walls and roof don't need much, 3/8" is more than necessary and the floor maybe a bit more but 1/2" thick floor is almost over kill. Lose the brick it's a heat sink you're paying to heat up and keep hot. If you're going to do enough forge welding to make the floor all gooey sticky a piece of kiln shelf is major armor and easily replaceable if necessary. 

The last layer of armor and improvement in efficiency is a good kiln wash. Don't buy ITC-100! At one time it was the only kiln wash commonly known in the blacksmith community and continues to be recommended as a legacy memory. It's not terribly effective even though it contains a high % of zirconium oxide. The current favorite kiln wash is Plistex 900 which fires hard like ceramic is nonporous and is very high alumina and so impervious to caustic welding fluxes. 

All that stuff is available in small quantity for reasonable from the Iforge store, the link is at the top of the page.

Thanks for doing the job you do. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Fighting_fires]

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

 

Frosty The Lucky.

Oh sheesh....you might be my new favorite person!

I had thought of turning it on it's side like you suggested, but didn't know if that would change the behavior of the forge? As I'm using it now, I can position the piece directly under the flame, with it on its side, would I lose efficiency to the point I needed to even worry about it? 

You say 3/8 ftp, when I'm searching, I just keep coming across instructions for things like rvs, and water heaters with them just swapping out pre-built hoses. I may be using the wrong terminology. Sorry for what's probably and absurdly fundamental question, but what would I look for to find the pieces or instructions im needing. 

Now onto the insulation. I'm thinking I should have done some more learning before starting. I confirmed with the company that the blanket on the forge WAS rigidized by them in house. Once I got it, I applied Satanite from a third party. Is that what you mean by refractory mortar? 

I removed the brick and coated all sides, let it dry for a handfull of days, then fired it briefly in cycles and then applied another coat. I did poke a small hole in the coat, the last time I used it. I had planned on getting more before firing it again, but I think I need to spend some time reading before I commit to that now. 

Will be removing the brick, and getting a kiln shelf as well as the kiln wash you suggested. 

 

That being said, would I be able to put the kiln was OVER the satanite I currently have? 

Thank you all so much!

[ThomasPowers]

Bring what you need to attach too---burner and hose to a good hardware store and find the oldest member of staff and say; "Hey I need to connect these together with a brass 90 and propane rated tape".   Pay. Go home and use forge. I live in a small town and the local ACE has a large cabinet of brass fittings. Of course in the country there is a lot more propane use than in the city:  water heaters, furnaces, shoot our kitchen stove runs off propane---had to be re-jetted when we bought it, the kit came with it.

Hopefully the O ring hasn't been crisped. TDC is NOT a great place to mount a burner for many reasons; including the chimney effect overheating the fittings when you turn off the forge.