Upgrade to 100lb propane tank

[Jason W]

So I had something kind of odd just happen... Hopefully someone can explain this to me. I live in Canada which believe is relevant for this cicircumstance.

I currently use a 20lb propane tank that you would for a BBQ that is filled by weight, I want to upgrade to a 100lb tank that is filled by pump, like you would fill up at a gas station for a propane powered car. The main reason is cost, the liquid propane pump is WAY cheaper than propane paid for by weight. So I made some calls to local gas fitting companies to find out what to do, where to go, what regulators I need, stems, valves etc. I was finally pointed in the right direction but when I asked about the valve for pump filling the guy put me on hold, came back on the line and flatly told me they don't do that and they can't get me what I'm looking for. His whole demeanor changed, it was really weird! What the heck did I say? 

Does anyone have any insight for a noob?

Thanks. 

[ThomasPowers]

Could you explain what "the valve for pump filling" is?   My 100# vertical tank just has the regular threaded connection for a POL fitting. It handles propane going in and propane going out. Perhaps they thought you wanted to do your own filling from the big tank to smaller ones and wanted to NOT be associated with that!

BTW when you say a tank like for a propane powered car do you mean to use a horizontal tank that has liquid propane coming out that is run through equipment to turn it into a gas?   This would probably be another thing they don't want you messing with.  You may want to talk with some local propane using blacksmiths to find out how they are doing things.

You may have "poisoned the well" with that dealer; one reason it's good to know the details before you start asking about things.  I would have thought that they would have questioned you to be sure what you wanted to do; but some folks tend to assume the worst.

 

[George N. M.]

The local propane suppliers here fill by volume (gallons in the US) but the smaller tanks are rated by weight.  A standard BBQ tank is rated as a 20 pound tank but, when empty, holds 4.7 gallons.  Current per gallon price is $US3.19/ gallon.  It is much cheaper to take an empty tank and have it refilled at a propane dealer than doing an exchange at a convenience store, grocery store, etc..  

The advantage to a larger tank, besides not having to refill so often, is that it does not freeze/slush up so fast when it is being used because of the additional thermal mass.  That is why a tank will freeze up faster when it is only partially full than when it is nearly full.

I recently checked with a local propane supplier to find out the minimum amount they would deliver to a home location and was told that it was 100 pounds.  This may be a way to go, larger home tank, home delivery, and plumbing to deliver the gas to the forge(s) and heater.  A full 30 pound tank (about 55 pounds) is about all I can carry by myself.  Also, transporting larger tanks safely can be an issue.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[pnut]

I hsv

28 minutes ago, George N. M. said:

A full 30 pound tank (about 55 pounds) is about all I can carry by myself. 

I recently bought a forty pound tank and I can attest to this. I had a hard time getting it into the backseat of my SUV  Within a week I bought a hand truck to keep from lugging it around by hand. 

Pnut

[Leather Bill]

I believe Thomas Powers answered the question of why ypu are having trouble getting suppliers to talk to you.   I don't understand half what you said in the above post so why don't you just say what you want to accomplish and we will try helping you figure out and  find the hows.

On another note regarding propane delivery.  All jurisdictions are not the same but in Texas it's illegal to fill portable containers from a delivery truck unless using certified scales.  To have scales certified that are hauled around in a truck open's a big can of worms so few compainies are willing. 

[Frosty]

Ditto Bill. That is a confusing mish mash of run on sentences Jason. Why didn't you just ask for what you wanted without explaining a bunch of things you don't understand? You know something like. "morning, I'd like to convert to a 100 lb. cylinder but don't want to haul it for refill myself. Do you deliver propane and how much?

That is ALL the information the distributor needs. Every extra word you add just increases the confusion until they don't want anything to do with you. 

Our distributor doesn't fill smaller than 50gal. (200lb. if my head calculator is working this early) I have to haul my 100lb. (25gal) bottle to the supplier's dock where they exchange it. The service station at the end of our road fills it in the bed of the truck. Even though it costs a little more to exchange bottles at the main yard I'm getting a bottle that has been inspected and tested, the tank valve does not leak and the fitting has been seated so my regulator tank fitting won't leak.

Do NOT reef your regulator or anything to the propane tank HARD it makes them leak by deforming the seats. Same for the tank valve turn it off "firmly" NOT hard. The valve and regulator connections are precision surfaces, if you or somebody hasn't over tightened them they seat gas tight. 

Hand screw the regulator to the tank fitting then use a properly adjusted or correct size wrench to snug it. Hold the wrench right next to the jaws so you do NOT over tighten it. Once it feels tight holding the wrench that way give it ONE EASY bump on the end of the wrench. With the outlet of the hose closed, crack the tank valve open and test your connection with soapy water. If there are ANY bubbles give the wrench another GENTLE BUMP. 

Turn the tank valve no harder than you'd turn off the faucet in the shower, propane tank valves make house water fittings look like toys for precision and function. That's all it needs. The same test with soapy water will tell you if the tank valve is closing tight. Just loosen the regulator SLIGHTLY so any propane getting past the tank valve has a place to leak and make bubbles.

The guys at the supplier will soap test when they hook their fill nozzle up if your tank looks iffy.

I have to muscle empty bottles into my pickup and muscle them back out but I have a decent system for the full tank unload. I lean my hand truck against the truck tail gate and chock the wheels, roll the tank onto the hand truck handle and pull it out of the truck. It slides down the hand truck and stops and is at a steep enough angle it's easy to stand up. 

For demos running one or two burners I use my 40lb. bottles and take both so I can switch when one starts to slush up. If I have help I take the 100lb. 

[arkie]

As for filling the 20# tanks, there is a difference between having them filled at a propane suppler/dealer vs. a gas station, big box store, convenience store, etc.  The dealer will fill the 20# tank to 80%, or 16# (assuming it is empty).  The exchange places are usually only filled to 75%, or 15# (that's part of their profit margin).  That extra one pound might make a difference if you are running low and need to finish something right away.  Also, if you continue to use the big box exchange method, the difference (loss) becomes cumulative each time you swap out if you aren't taking in a completely empty cylinder.

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning Jason,

If you want to fill your Propane tank at the pumps, connect it to your vehicle and have the installation inspected so you can get an approved sticker from an authorized Propane system installer. It is not simple, unless you are going to operate your vehicle on Propane. The cost of doing the installation will take over 25 years to amortize the savings on the price of the Propane. Forget the 20 lbs. tanks, join 2- 30 or 40 lbs tanks together (better with 100lbs tanks). You increase the surface area of the liquid Propane and you won't get the freezing of the tanks (or as bad), each tank only has to produce half the draw!!

Neil