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Dual IFB ribbon burner gas forge with retractable rear wall


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Hi everybody,
 
I just found out it has been 10 years since I last logged in to this forum. Time flies. Anyway, I really appreciate it still being very active and full of supportive people. The pages about Frosty's burner really helped me out.
 
I had some problems with forge welding more difficult damascus patterns and I partly blamed my current single venturi burner gas forge. For big billets I had to put the choke sleeve fully open in order to have enough heat, but I guess all the oxygen also contributed to some bad welds. I also had a hot spot in the middle, so I wanted an oven with a more evenly distributed heat and with more control over the air/gas mixture.
 
Here's my design. I wanted to try out the ribbon burner, but figured it might be easier to just drill holes in IFB 3000F instead of pouring it. The square tubes are connected to it with heat resisting silicone kit. I hope the bricks will hold up, if they don't I'll have to make refractory burners.
 
The rear wall is retractable, so I can make use of half the oven for smaller work. The second burner can be shut on or off with the 2" ball valve.
 
There's a safety system with an air pressure sensor (not drawn) which will shut of the gas solenoid in case of blower failure or the power going down.
 
The door has counterweights inside the square tube, both left and right (cables are not in the drawing). I'm guessing the door won't skew when I attach a door opener in the middle. I'd like to open it with my tongs since I'll already need to have tongs in my hands for the forgings to take out.
 
Most of the materials are here, so I can start welding the base frame. 
 
Any critique or ideas are welcome!
 
Kind regards,
 
Johan van Zanten
The Netherlands

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Good to see you again Johan, don't be such a stranger. 

That is one complicated design! I'm sure it'll work but I don't know how well nor if that much work is worth it.

I like venting the exhaust gasses out of the work space, that's a very good thing.

The air curtain is a plus.

The skirts on the hood will be stopped by the frame of the door. How are you going to open or close the door when the forge is hot? 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

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29 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

What are the walls made from?

The walls of the forge itself are made from 2800 degrees F insulating fire brick. The small bricks surrounding the forge are regular yellow fire bricks.

26 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Good to see you again Johan, don't be such a stranger. 

That is one complicated design! I'm sure it'll work but I don't know how well nor if that much work is worth it.

I like venting the exhaust gasses out of the work space, that's a very good thing.

The air curtain is a plus.

The skirts on the hood will be stopped by the frame of the door. How are you going to open or close the door when the forge is hot? 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

Yes I always end up making complicated designs  I wanted a forge that will last and is easy to rebuild and easy to move to my next workshop. No hoods taking of the wall for instance. The hood can be taken of the frame so the frame will fit under the doorway of my shop. 

I will test the door sliding mechanism fist, the amount of skew will determine what kind of door opener stud I will weld on it, possibly a 5 inch rod that can be gripped with tongs.

When I need a bigger interior, it will be easy to lay the bricks in a different configuration. Relining (changing bricks for new ones) is also easy. I once read your comment about one forge to rule them all, you said it doesn't exist, I'll agree with that, but nevertheless tried to make a forge as good as I could imagine.

I hope the second burner will burn as good as the first one, no weird gas mixture problems etc.

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1 minute ago, Lateralus said:

I once read your comment about one forge the rule them all, you said it doesnt' exsist, I'll agree with that, but never the less tried to make a forge as good as I could imagine.

It's a craft hazard, we all do it. My last forge is too large of course. The next one should be more of a universal do all. It'll be easier to dust too. 

I get the brick pile forge, I like them for all the reasons you list. Don't have a question there.

Good luck with a door that shape my intuition says it's going to be difficult to move as long as it is. The telescoping tubing guides are going to wrack and jam at the least excuse.

Frosty The Lucky.

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5 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Good luck with a door that shape my intuition says it's going to be difficult to move as long as it is. The telescoping tubing guides are going to wrack and jam at the least excuse.

Yes the door is tricky. But did you notice that both inner tubes have big steel counter weights (not shown in the drawing because it sits inside the tube), one left and one right, in total the same weight as the whole door, and the connection with the cable and pulley (also not drawn)? The opening stud will be mounted in the center (left-right-center) of the door.

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Yes, counter balanced is implied. Unless you install a screw lift or some other mechanical lift that guide will only need to be off maybe a cm. to jam. The hood has the same issue.

I'd go with a double swing arm system like a WATT linkage. They counter balance easily and don't wrack. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Frosty you are right, thanks, I searched up a bit on skewing and it turns out it is independent of the forces added by the counterweight, it depends only on the angles and the length/width ratio of the slider.

I'll need to come up with a new door system ;)

In the formula, d will give the minimum length needed for skewing, so it can also show the minimum length for a, which in my case will be 732mm which is way more than I have designed right now :P 

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It won't be my first. Also, buy starting from an up facing burner in a brick top table, you will be able to do more than you imagine at present. I built a very similar system to yours for Gas Burners for forges,Furnaces,

A brick pile forge on a brick lined table; these are good examples of 'universal' tools. I share Frost's view of the inbuilt problems in such equipment. It boils down to "nothin's for nothin." That said a brick pile forge is a universal tool:rolleyes:

AND, so is a table top forge. Together, what they can do is even more universal type stuff :D

But, not without penalties.

They aren't my mini-forges; several better men than I have pioneered their use. What they do is save fuel, shop space, and heat gain in your shop in hot whether.

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Ah cool, do you have pics from the similar forge?

Yeah, I agree, I suppose the brick pile forge will be very universal, though I doubt how often I will place the bricks in another configuration haha. I do think I'll replace the back wall often together with the use of one or two burners.

What do you mean by the inbuilt problems?

I designed another door system. Thanks Frosty for convincing me. I hope this one will work OK.

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Edited by Mod30
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12 hours ago, Lateralus said:

What do you mean by the inbuilt problems?

Nothing sinister; all gas forges have inbuilt problems. Brick forges are square or rectangular by nature. Tunnel forges are cylindrical by nature. Neither design is flawed, but both are limited by their nature. Tunnel, "D," and oval forges have their shapes "set in stone." Brick pile forges (and casting furnaces) are variable. On the other hand, shaped forges seal up much better than brick piles, and are generally more fuel efficient. A certain amount of added space is needed to store sufficient bricks to meet occasional needs while lessor amounts are normally used. And of course the worst problem of all is dreaming up projects that will absolutely require its use :)

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