First Forge Build

[Allen0311]

I started a few weeks ago building my first forge. I’m wanting to start bladesmithing/tool making. 
 

I've built a box forge out of 3/16 plate steel. The internal diameter is 5” x 7” x 12”. Insulated with 2” of rigidized kawool and then 3/4” of Kasto-Lite 30. I am going to cover it with ITC-100 Kiln wash. I had already bought this before learning Plistex would’ve been better. 
 

I chose to build a 8” ribbon burner. I used the Wayne Coe instructions for the burner with a few changes. I used his spacing but used drinking straws instead of crayons. And made the pipe entrance from the side instead of rear to save space. I also elected to put the burner on the side and at the top of the forge wall. 
 

I had a hard time finding how to pipe it so after lots of looking I finally figured it out. I chose to run 2” pipe down to the blower. The blower is a 2” blower from blacksmith depot. I added a gate valve for air control. 
 

The gas entrance is 1/4” piping that I am going to drill and tap into the 2” pipe above the gate valve. The gas pipe will be as follows. 

1/4” MPT/FPT 90–>1/4”x3” NPT nipple—>1/4”NPT tee with a 0-30 PSI gauge—>1/4”X2” NPT nipple—>1/4”FPT to FPT needle valve—>1/4” MPT to FPT ball valve—>1/4”x3” Nipple—>1/4” Union—>1/4” MPT to 3/8 Flare Fitting. 
 

All the pipe was galvanized so I soaked it in vinegar to remove galvanization prior to welding or heating. 
 

I will run from the gas connection to the tank with a 12’ braided 0-30 psi regulator with the gauge. 
 

I opted to have the additional gauge on the regulator and after the needle valve to be able to measure and duplicate the tuning as easily as possible. 

I still need add surround to hold burner and finish the stand. 

I hope to have it burning be next weekend. If anyone knows where to find the best info on tuning and the proper colors for temps that would be greatly appreciated. I’ve been reading just hasn’t find it yet. 

[Frosty]

You do nice work Allen. 

The steel shell surrounding the openings WILL warp and tweak the whole forge. If possible cut it back so the ceramic blanket is exposed and cover it with your hard refractory so it stands proud of the shell. This will provide some shielding while getting the steel farther from the flame. Also being a more narrow strip of steel super heating it will have less effect on the rest of the shell. 

It's too late to do anything but I discovered in my tinkering with ribbon burners that if you put the supply pipe at a 90* angle to the outlets in the block you don't need the diffuser at all so you don't need the high output blower to overcome the back pressure. Happily though, the one you installed shouldn't be terribly restrictive. It's in I wouldn't worry about it.

A naturally aspirated multiple outlet burner wouldn't work worth beans with a diffuser in the plenum. That's why I put the supply inlet centered and at 90* to the outlet nozzles. The burner flames aren't perfectly even but the pattern isn't what I expected, they're longer at the ends of the plenum than centered closest to the inlet. NA burners don't work will against much back pressure so you want to make it flow as easily as possible, getting back pressure balanced was the tricky part. I burned up several wood test blocks. The story is in the, "NARB Lives," thread.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[Allen0311]

Thanks for the compliment and advice frosty. I’ll cut the steel back and tack a piece of flat bar for the KL30 to extend out so flame contacts it instead of steel. I did leave sections of the steel unweleded for vents based off the Forges 101 page. 
 

I added the mixing diffuser based off the instructions but I did add more/larger holes and it has about 1/4” gap on either side to reduce back pressure.

The stand will have shelf 1” lower than the forge floor to support fire bricks to act as doors if need be. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Mod30
Excessive quoting

[Frosty]

I just calls em like I sees em, Allen. 

I left the shell back from the opening on my last forge but it still warps. Fortunately it's 14 ga. so just bacons rather than push the rest of the shell around. My next build the Kastolite 30 hard refractory will get applied over the exposed Kaowool and then over the shell about an inch so the flame can disperse before it contacts the shell. My concern with that experiment will be the shell warping and breaking up the Kastolite. 

The next shell might be stainless, it's less thermally conductive and so warps less. 

I'm not going to gig you for actually FOLLOWING a proven set of plans, we spend way too much time trying to help guys fix problems they build into things by trying to: reinvent plans, mix and match different plans, or build off online videos posted by guys who didn't understand much.

Your tweak to the diffuser plate is excellent, you can adjust for the increased flow with the valves. It's what they're there for. 

It's good to see someone breaking into the craft that brings a high level of shop skills and experience with them. It's refreshing to offer a critique and not be treated like I'm an old meany attacking them. I enjoy helping the kids but it's an enjoyable break sitting at the grown up's table.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[Allen0311]

Frosty,

I made the mistake of asking a very open ended uniform question once in this forum. Won’t make that mistake again. lol

As a commercial construction superintendent I get paid to follow plans so I make sure I read them. 
 

I also don’t like to waste money so I read all of forges 101 and burner 101 To make sure I built what suites my needs and was the right size.

I’m still learning the welding piece as I am teaching myself that too. Ive done finish carpentry for years. 

it would be interesting to see if the stainless shell did well enough to offset the cost of the added expense. I’ll let you try it first

Edited December 6, 2020 by Mod30
Excessive quoting

[Frosty]

Ahhh, that first question didn't really get a bad response, not like if you'd argued with the first answer. It can seem pretty negative to get a Socratic response to a question, we all step in it now and then. Such is life. 

Oooh, a guy who reads and writes reports, plans, etc. for a living who gets his hands dirty too! Too cool, you're going to fit right in here. 

I don't think I'll do much if any welding on the next gasser, too any guys think they have to have a welder, I think I'll use: screws, nuts and bolts, pop rivets, etc. in different places to give folks the idea. 

I've been kicking the design around in my head and on paper for quite a while but I don't spend a lot of time in the shop anymore so I haven't finalized anything as yet. Maybe next spring when I can buy a few things without an environmental suit. Then again, I'm thinking about something that may be a complete fail or nearly useless dud so I'm in no hurry.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[Allen0311]

I’ve learned a ton from this forum. I always like to get my hands dirty. Helps me remember where I started and teach guys after me. 
 

Any ideas As to where I should look for information on judging flame colors and temps so I can make sure when it does fire I can tune it?

[Mikey98118]

Stainless is pretty; rust is not. Outside of #316 stainless being better for flame retention nozzles, I can't honestly justify the expense; this hasn't stopped me from using it on every burner for the last sixteen years. Pretty is good

[Frosty]

I was talking about using stainless for the forge shell. If I get the electrical in and lathe set up I might cut some split tooling and try spinning burners. If it works out I might cut steel split tooling and spend the money on inconel so the burner can get incandescent without degrading. But that's just a thought. A Frankenburner intake on it should be sweet. Hmmm?

It's hard to make a flame color chart with any accuracy. Electronic cameras and vagaries of the web and individual monitor color recreation throws too many variables in the mix. Worse than that, the shapes and colors of good flames aren't always consistent, the standards I used for many years has changed in the last couple. Mike is a better judge than I am if I'm not there in person. 

If you post pictures we can help evaluate. No videos please, they aren't very informative, especially when they're swinging all over the place. 

Frosty The Lucky. 

 

[Mikey98118]

3 hours ago, Frosty said:

It's hard to make a flame color chart with any accuracy. Electronic cameras and vagaries of the web and individual monitor color recreation throws too many variables in the mix. Worse than that, the shapes and colors of good flames aren't always consistent, the standards I used for many years has changed in the last couple. Mike is a better judge than I am if I'm not there in person. 

On top of all that, incandescent colors seems to be changed by the amount of ambient light. to some extent.