TPAAAT works!

[Holger]

Well, I tried the TPAAAT method and had results within 24 hours. Now comes the part where I try and figure out how much to offer and get some help from you folks on what kind of condition this animal is in. I will go back tomorrow with a ruler and a ball bearing and test the rebound, as well as lightly tapping all over the face horn and heel. I did tap the face once and it rang very strongly, sort of like a bell. It seemed very hard. I think it’s cast steel, It weighs around 150 pounds and the only mark I could find on it was sort of indistinct under the heel. I’ve included a photo. At the bottom of the anvil there is an oval shaped indentation and everything else seems like it’s intact just a little bit of wear on the step and face.  I also found a swage that looks to be at least 100 pounds and numerous tongs.

[Latticino]

Hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like there might be a touch of swayback on the face of the anvil.  Not a deal breaker, but certainly a bargaining point.  Face is a bit scarred up, but still very usable and edges look great.  No sign of bad weld repairs, so that is a definite positive.  If I were in the market I'd be happy to get it at anywhere between 2 and 3 $/# (would even go between 4 an 5 if the swayback isn't more than a 1/6" maximum), but I'm kind of cheap.

If I had to guess from the photos I'd say that this is a wrought iron anvil with a forge welded on tool steel face.  Pretty common method for manufacture of early anvils.  Look for markings on the anvil sides, rub with chalk to reveal...

Tongs are a great help.  In usable condition around $10 or $15 each is a good deal for a lot purchase.

Swage blocks are a nice addition to the shop, but certainly not a necessity for a while.  I use mine pretty regularly, but I like to make axes and hammers.  IMHO a post vise is a more important tool.  Swage blocks can get quite expensive, even more than anvils at the $/#, so if they are letting it go cheap it can certainly be worth a hard look.

Good luck

[Holger]

Thanks for the reply. I’ll try the chalk trick. I thought it might be an arm and hammer as it has a concave oval on the bottom.  

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Trenton also shared the caplet underside of the base with A&H. Are there power hammer marks under the heel?

[Holger]

I didn’t see any, but I’ll look for them.  How did Trenton typically mark their anvils?

[Latticino]

The word Trenton inside a diamond:

[ThomasPowers]

Trenton's seem to be more lightly stamped than some others, the markings may disappear more often.  Arm and Hammer would leave the marks of the steam hammer on the underside of the heel and so just their presence can be definitive.

Both are top tier anvils, generally made in Columbus Ohio, (Early Trentons were imported; but by the time they used the caplet they were USA made IIRC.)

[Daswulf]

On my Trenton only the upper half of the diamond of the logo shows. So it might be subtle.

[Holger]

Well, I bought it for a good price.  I cleaned it up and have some better pics.  Looks to me like it might it might be a trenton.  weighs around 150 pounds, I'll weigh when I get it home.  I passed on a swage block as it didn't have any dished surfaces in the center just really large square holes. 

[ThomasPowers]

Picture of the underside of the base please?

[Holger]

I enhanced the image of the stamp a little, maybe its clearer?

Here you go Mr Powers

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Ya, I think it's a Trenton too. I hope you have read about not doing any grinding, milling or welding on the hardened face. All it needs is hot steel hammered on it to make it shine.

[Daswulf]

Looks like the Trenton logo. 

Now, put it to work. 

[Holger]

8 minutes ago, Irondragon ForgeClay Works said:

Ya, I think it's a Trenton too. I hope you have read about not doing any grinding, milling or welding on the hardened face. All it needs is hot steel hammered on it to make it shine.

Just the wire wheel to get the rust off.  It won't need any modifications except maybe a sacrificial piece of mild steel with ears on it to put over the table to keep from putting more dents in that.  I promise I won't weld it on. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Holger
adding quote

[ThomasPowers]

adding a sheet of steel will make it ear damaging loud.  If you are worried about denting it use a softer hammer!

(Draw the temper on a hammer head till it's softer than the face of the anvil.  If the face is soft; then it was probably in a structure fire---which counts as major damage!  Usually easier to buy another than re-heat treat an anvil face!)

[Holger]

6 minutes ago, Daswulf said:

Looks like the Trenton logo. 

Now, put it to work. 

First I need to get the chainsaw and cut a stump for a temporary home, like right now.  I'm itching to get hammering.

[Holger]

28 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

adding a sheet of steel will make it ear damaging loud.  If you are worried about denting it use a softer hammer!

(Draw the temper on a hammer head till it's softer than the face of the anvil.  If the face is soft; then it was probably in a structure fire---which counts as major damage!  Usually easier to buy another than re-heat treat an anvil face!)

I use sacrificial steel when punching and cutting with a hot or cold chisel.  The ears will keep it on there when I'm doing that, and it comes right off.  Whoever used this anvil before wore a pretty decent groove in there.

[ThomasPowers]

OK a cutting plate is different, your comment sounded like you were going to put a sheet on the face for everything!  I took a strip of 1/8" thick steel and forged one end down to fit in the hardy hole for use as a cutting plate. When it gets too chewed up I heat the bend and bend it the other way so a clean side is up.

[Holger]

I'm going to include the dimensions of my newly acquired Trenton since I found this kind of stuff useful when I was researching it. 

Length of Face = 19.75",  Width of  Face and table = 4.625",  Length Table = 2.5", Step height = 1",  Hardie = 1",  Pritchel = .75" Dia,  Horn = 9.5" from step to end of bick.

 Overall length = 31.75,  Height = 12.25",  Length of base = 13.5",  Width of base = 11"

And apparently I'm really bad at estimating weight.  I thought it was 150 pounds and it turns out that it is actually 225.

I thought it felt just a little heavy when I picked it up to get it in and out of the truck.

If I apply the formula  that I have seen out on the internet  (LxH)-110=weight,  I get 278Lbs, for whatever that is worth.

Other than the faint Trenton logo, I cant find any other markings at all. 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Is that a general estimation tool or specific for Trenton's?  If general; it is obvious that anvils have different proportions; for example the early English squat fat waisted London pattern anvils vs the late wasp waisted American anvils. 

Now you got me interested in the estimation equation!  Is the length, the length of the face; or total length of the anvil?  I have a number of different types of anvils and I can measure them Saturday and see if that works better for the Peter Wrights than the Trenton, Hay Budden and Arm and Hammer---I assume my blacker Fisher would be right out!  John; you have a Mousehole don't you?  Can you post the results for it?

Anyway you have a great anvil to do great things with!

[Holger]

I actually think the formula is for a London pattern.  I didn't see one for American anvils, and as I recall someone else applied that formula to an Arm and Hammer and came up with an over weight estimate too.  I thought I would post it as an additional data point.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Mod30
Remove excessive quote.

[ThomasPowers]

Most American anvils are London Pattern too; just a different style in that pattern. English anvils tend to have fat waists and shorter horns and heels; to me they look "industrial" with larger sweet spots. The American London Pattern tend to have longer heels and horns and often look a bit more attenuated.  Both types have their uses. If I was doing a lot of ornamental work I would go American and if I was doing a lot of heavy tool forging I'd go with an English.