Chimaera Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Hi. I'm located in Cincinnati. I'm very new to forging, and have built myself a forge (not JABOD, weber style grill lined with fireclay). I've moved through a few different fuels, eventually settling on Tractor Supply Company Nut Anthracite at $0.20/lb. However, especially now that I want to try some quarter mokume, I've heard that bituminous/soft coal/coke works a lot better. Does anyone know where to purchase some of that in the general area? Also, what would that cost? I'm on a budget and would rather not go very far over my $0.20/lb. Is that even possible? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Contact SOFA and ask where they get their coal, or if you can get some directly from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 Ok, I'll look into it. Thanks Glenn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 What Glen said. I'll leave my reply anyway since I already typed it haha. Is there an ABANA group near you? They may or may not be meeting right now due to CV-19, but you should be able to call the forgemaster for your region and ask him (or her) where they get their coal. I'm sure they will be able to help you out. Then once they're having meets again, you should try to attend, maybe make the forgemaster something cool with your quarter-kume when you get if figured out as a thank you. As a fellow anthracite user (not from TSC, but that doesn't matter) I know the "fun" of working with a sub optimal coal. I will say there are probably work arounds for doing what you're trying to do with anthracite. Perhaps a canister of some sort to hold all your coins and copper strips in? I would use a welder, but you may be able to devise something without one. With that however, it might get a little tricky if you use steel, although copper won't weld to steel, nickel will so I don't know how that would work. Maybe a copper pipe filled with all your stuff? Crimp over the ends, stand it on end and there you go? Still not sure it would work, but maybe... But I digress, I would probably expect to need to pay a little more per pound to get good smithing coal. Especially if it turns out you need to ship it... If it's less than a ~2 hr drive you're better off driving out, picking it up (buying enough to last you long enough to justify the drive) and driving it back. Shipping can be a killer when it comes to price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 The reason I suggested a blacksmithing group or organization is that they know and use good coal. You also need to educate yourself on coal, as there are several factors to look for. BP0051 Good Coal is a place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Frazer said: Shipping can be a killer when it comes to price. I'm sure it can. I'll look for an ABANA. What I'm wondering (I'll have to look into it a bit more and then probably test) is if I could take a copper pipe, put my coins in, then put that in a steel pipe. Not only would it give a nice copper border to the mokume, but it would (hopefully) not destroy everything... 2 minutes ago, Glenn said: BP0051 Good Coal is a place to start. Awesome, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 As long as your doing research: BP0064 Mokume Gane Fusion method Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 Ugh! It's just so pretty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 So, nickel sheets are CRAZY expensive. As far as mokume, what if I used US nickels, which are made of cupronickel, and copper sheet? Then I get cheap cupronickel (which should be silver and bond to the copper even better than pure nickel) to use for the silver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Your idea of putting a stack of coins in a tube or pipe and heating it could work but I see a few possible problems. First, you would have to get a tube or pipe exactly the same diameter as the coins. Anything very much larger than the diameter of the coins would leave air within which could be sub-optimal and lead to oxidation. Second, how would you apply pressure to the ends? Almost all instructions for mokume gane involve some sort of pressure from clamps or some sort or hammering. Third, I think that you'd have to be very careful with temperature control to get the coins to bond but not just melt into a liquid. That may take some experimentation. If you got it to melt to a liquid it would mix and then bond (because of the nickel) to the inside of the steel pipe. That would take some real effort to separate, sort of like canister welding without a barrier between the filling and the canister. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 Ok. Those problems certainly makes sense. Is it "whiteout" that you can use to keep canister damascus from bonding to the canister? Would that work here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 I live near Dayton. My coal supplier is in Troy (by the airport). I do not know if he will deliver to Cinci but he does to me for $215 a ton. PM me and i will give you contact details. Oh and yes it is bituminous coal from KY. Did the edit option go away? Anyway i forgot to mention my delivery is no less than 1 ton, but you can go get smaller amount and he knocks a little since he aint delivering it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Re: Copper Pipe: remember too that if it's a tight fit inside the pipe when cold there will be a gap when heated---we've discussed the old ring and ball demonstration fairly recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 6 hours ago, BillyBones said: Anyway i forgot to mention my delivery is no less than 1 ton, Are you saying he delivers for $215 a ton, or the coal costs $215 a ton? I am just a hobby smith, been doing this for only six months or so, so 1 ton is way too much for me. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 A ton is only 4-5 ea 55 gallon drums. If it is good coal for blacksmithing, the only problem you have is storage for a while. Use plastic drums or put a trash bag liner in the steel drums. When you run out of that coal, you will wish you had purchased more when you hear the new price for the same coal when you need more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 It is $215 a ton delivered and the smallest amount that he will deliver is 1 ton. If you pick it up i think he charges $200 a ton. I to am just a hobby smith and 1 ton will last me well over a year. 17 hours ago, Glenn said: put a trash bag liner in the steel drums Is there a reason for that? Just wondering i store mine in the barn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Check with the Cincinnati blacksmiths guild. They regularly meet at Blue Hell Studio or did. Can't say for sure now but CBG is the local ABANA affiliate. I'm just outside of Florence KY about thirty minutes from Cincinnati. The other option is Cumberland Elkhorn coal and coke in Louisville. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Split a ton with another smith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Billy: The reason for the plastic liner is to keep the coal from slaking (breaking down and crumbling) from the humidity in the air. Many coals are hydroscopic and attract moisture. It is not much of a problem in drier climates like WY or NM but it the wetter parts of the country it is a good idea to protect the coal a bit, even when stored inside. If you are just dumping the coal on the floor of the barn or using an old stall for a coal bin just putting a blue tarp over it would help. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 If your using a stall as a coal bin, put the tarp on the ground so when you finish using the coal, clean up of the last little bit of coal is nothing more than raising a corner of the tarp. The tarp on top will keep out debris as well as some on the humidity. The plastic liner was to protect the steel drum form the acids the coal may produce, such as sulfuric from the sulfur content in some coals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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