Steve Sells Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 19 hours ago, Chimaera said: no more big hunks of steel drawing out the heat.. how will it suck out heat when you are heating it all together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 I may be wrong, but I feel that a larger piece of metal will make it heat more slowly by drawing the heat out of the fire itself (I have a very small forge that doesn't output that much heat)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 As the fuel burns, heat is released. Any metal in the fire or the path of the exhaust will absorb that heat. How do you draw heat out of a fire itself ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 The metal, rather than the coal, absorbs the heat. I'm not sure... Let's just say I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Just getting a handle on things is all. The Ah HAH moment will come, this stuff isn't that complicated. How about we save the "wrong" admonishments for something we can all laugh about? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 So, quick update. Thankfully, most of you (gently and nicely) prepared me for failure, as that's exactly what I did. I started by hooking up the shopvac as my air supply, which gave me an incredibly hot forge. The nice thing about that is that I then don't need to bury the mokume in with the coal, it can sit on top which lets me monitor it much better. First heat, I got it a little late. It starts to look wet, I go to pick it up, it lets out a couple drops of copper before I get it, but it seems alright. Give it some firm but gentle hammer blows, throw it back in to heat to "wet". Pull it out, firm but gentle hammer blows. At this point, the stack is beginning to lean a bit. Third and final welding heat, seems to go alright. Pull it out of the clamp, throw it on the ground, it doesn't break. Next couple of heats are just squaring it up a bit. Go to grind the rough edges off, and... cold shut. Maybe two. Try to give it another weld, one of the whole layers breaks off. throw it back in the fire, have some issues with the shopvac, and... melt it. Wow. Hopefully I learned a couple lessons. Make sure the stuff is clean and has good contact, be very careful with timing, try to get shapes that line up... I think I'll try again with quarters, they might be a bit easier for me. Quick note, has anyone had borax create clinker? I sprinkled a little borax on before round two of welding, and immediately after I got crazy clinker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 The shop vac is very likely putting out way too much air, resulting in an oxidizing flame. This oxide layer may get in the way of your welds. It applies for steel so I image it applies for this too. That's also why you generally don't put your material on top of your fire, and instead bury it slightly to protect it from O2 in the air. It does make it harder when you can't see it, especially when there is a risk of melting it.. Maybe some sort of time based system will help on your next attempt. Yes, flux will increase the amount of clinker, or at least stick it all together in a big mass. I'm not sure which, but yes I would consider that normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 Ok. The oxidizing certainly makes sense. It just seems like it would be the lesser evil as opposed to sticking it down in there... A piece of rebar I don't really run the risk of melting (most of the time) and I can easily pull it out and check on it. However, a timer could probably help with that. Thanks for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Bury a closed off at one end piece of black pipe that your piece will fit in. Add some powdered real charcoal as an O2 scavenger and make a muffle furnace to heat your piece in---just like heat treating blades! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 Ok. Just seems difficult to keep it from melting, but I'll give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Chimaera said: Ok. Just seems difficult to keep it from melting, but I'll give it a try. Yes, but keep at it. It is not hard once you understand the path through all the hazards and remember to act accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 Sounds good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted December 23, 2020 Author Share Posted December 23, 2020 Finally was able to get some good steel and make a real mokume clamp-previous attempt on bottom, new on top. Now I just need to not make a fool of myself and make some! Yes, I know I need to clean my workbench... probably shouldn't have an angle grinder laying there... After the quarters I might take another try at nickels and pre1982 pennies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 You may want to give the nuts and bolts a vinegar soak before you throw them in the forge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Goods, agreed. Chimaera, clean your workbench? I mean you can if you want, just make sure it's never clean enough to find that thing you lost a few months back. Workbenches have been engineered for collecting stray, discarded and useful items indiscriminately and to lose things in plain sight. At least that's my experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted December 23, 2020 Author Share Posted December 23, 2020 Yep. Did already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted December 24, 2020 Author Share Posted December 24, 2020 Frazer, I certainly agree. That AG in the pic? I can't find it. My workbench is 25 square feet! Nor the crescent wrench for that matter Though one reason I need to clean it is it's full of steel dust which (with my tendency to wander barefoot) is not always pleasant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 I could ship you a bale of goatheads (Scientific name: Tribulus terrestris. Family: Caltrop family 'Zygophyllaceae')which will soon have you Wearing shoes to get from the bed to the bathroom in the middle of the night! Guess why they call it the "caltrop family"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted December 24, 2020 Author Share Posted December 24, 2020 Yikes! Doesn't sound fun... Though I wouldn't mind some water caltrops... I do love water chestnuts in a good stir fry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 I got a couple of pieces of grating, like what is used for cat walks, and have one as a door mat by each exterior door, Scrub your shoes/boots well and it cuts down on them in the house. Really hard on bike tires though---also 2 wheel dolly tires I finally got a set of solid wheels (ex large commercial lawn mower wheels) and made an axle that would fit them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted December 25, 2020 Author Share Posted December 25, 2020 We don’t wear shoes in the house so we don’t have issues of that sort (along with not having the plant around here, to the best of my knowledge). I find barefoot or socks cleaner and more comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryd Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 I've done two small billets in the last two days out of quarters. About $5 each. This is after I burned the copper and yellow brass I had into a puddle on the floor of my forge (turns out yellow brass melts about 350 degrees lower than copper). Anyway, making a roll of quarters with aluminum foil for a wrapper and just putting them in a vise worked great. I heated the stack with a spare forge burner and squeezed it more with the vise every time it got up to dull orange. After compressing my stack by about 10-15% I just left it in the vice to cool and in a couple of hours I had a really solid piece. Apparently, you don't need as much heat if you have more continuous pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Yes alloys melt at lower temperatures than their constituents Learned that in Chemistry class in Highschool back in the early 1970's....we checked on how pure an extraction we had done by finding out the melting point and how long it took to completely melt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 Nice, Kerryd! Unfortunately I do not have a forge burner... If I get a propane forge, though, I will probably give that a try. Did you make yours or buy it? You can also use half dollars for a lower layer billet. An Ike dollar has the equivalent weight to: 2 JFK half dollars, 4 quarters, or 10 dimes, all of which have the same composition. They all have the same value:weight ratio. You can use that to change your layer count how you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojo Pedro Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I have been playing with MG as well I have a 32 coin billet (cut and stacked) just waiting on a jewelers saw to get here to play some more :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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