Chimaera Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 So I guess 1/12"? Weird size for a plate, so maybe 14 gauge? While you're probably correct, I don't really have another choice... It's between getting it thick, but layered, or thin... I figured the thicker one was the lesser evil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 If you've got any thoughts, though, I'm happy to listen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I repeat you need at least 3/8 inch thick plates, get off yer rear end and go to the scrap yard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Or keep you eyes open on the road, a road kill leaf spring would do though you would need to anneal it to drill the holes. (Or hot punch them!) It's not that you don't have a choice; it's that you have chosen not to have a choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 You must have some stock that you could forge into a ~3/8" thick bar somewhere! If not, find something (see above) and while you're doing so, stock up on various sizes of materials. You never know what sorts of things you may want to make or slap together (like this jig) and it pays to have various sizes of material handy. You could forge a needle out of 1" square stock, but if you have some 1/8" round laying around that saves you a lot of time. I'm obviously using an exaggerated example to prove a point, and I'm not saying go get every size material under the sun. Just a few standard sizes that are appropriate to the things you make and some additional odds and ends. If you're on a budget and can't (or don't want to) pick up new stock from your local supplier and/or if you don't have a scrap yard that lets you walk their yard near you, tell your friends, your friends friends, your parents, your parents friends, your grandparents, etc., etc. that you're a blacksmith and if they ever come across sources of scrap metal to let you know. I just got a call this week that the ski resort near me has a pile of thick plate, heavy wall square tube, 1" rebar, and a bunch of other stuff all piled up. I went and looked and there was tons of useful material, all free, all there for the foreseeable future. If you're working on a budget there is plenty of stuff out there. You don't even have to be lucky in order to find it. As they say, "One man's trash...". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I have an 8' tall steel cabinet with shelves of "possibles". One shelf is different size pipe pieces, another of sq tubing, another of sq bar. I tend go pick up "useful" stuff from the side of the road, and scrapyard. With no electricity in the shop having a short section of "pre cut" angle iron can save a lot of time with the hacksaw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Thomas: I just had a thought about your non-electrical shop: Would a generator, fired up only when you need a power tool, be an alternative to stringing/laying commercial power to your shop? It would add an additional step in any process but might be a less expensive alternative. Just thinkin'. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Well if it weren't for the CV-19 I would have electricity to the shop; it's in process so the suggestion is moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 OK, good. It's one thing to do something in a traditional way because you want to explore traditional techniques but it's another to have to do things in a 19th century way because you don't have access to the 21st century. This is another reason to look forward to the pandemic being over. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Frazer said: If you're on a budget and can't (or don't want to) pick up new stock from your local supplier and/or if you don't have a scrap yard that lets you walk their yard near you I don't have a ton of money, and (though not for lack of looking) there is nowhere within a reasonable distance that you can walk a scrapyard (other than automotive, of course.) I try to look, but I never see anything on the side of the road... After briefly searching around, it looks like I can get some 3/8X3X24" for $13... might get that. While I'd rather do this for "free", sometimes free just doesn't cut it... and I'm literally melting money anyway, so why not. Upon remeasuring (with calipers this time) my jig is 3/8" thick. If it would be helpful, I can add another layer or two to it. The bolts are really thin, and I plan on picking up some thicker ones (I can afford those) soon. The current ones will almost definitely fail after a single forging, and might even have to be cut off of the plate. As a prototype, at least, is there just the slightest possibility of this working? That's all I ask, that I have a minor chance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 What? $13 for 2'? You should be able to get a 20' (yes foot) stick of 3/8 x ~3/4" bar stock at your local steel supply for around that price.. maybe a couple dollars more.. If you're looking online at lowes or home depot or something like that for steel you're paying WAY too much.. How do you plan to heat that big wide thing? Why not use a bar a little wider than the stack so you can get the heat where you need to and 2 bolts rather than 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 It would seem I have misunderstood the diagram... oops. Somehow it looked like you were supposed to use 4 bolts... my oh my am I bad at this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 GTTS (go to the source) works as well as TPAAAT. People are using the material and the cut offs or short pieces then go to the scrap yard. Step in before they load their truck. If you are looking for leaf spring, go to the shop that makes leaf springs, or replaces leaf springs on vehicles. A box of donuts or cookies and being polite will go a long way in getting your car or truck loaded. Do not get greedy, just take what you can use, otherwise they will think you are a scrapper. You are saying you want brass, and prefer it in sheets. OK what size sheets or pieces do you need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 I really need to find some local blacksmiths and figure out what I'm doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I never had any issues finding metal when I lived in the inner city of Columbus OH. In fact an ornamental iron place used to let me clean out their scrap bin for free! They had to pay to have it hauled to the scrap yard and I: asked, always wore PPE, never got in the way of production, left it neater than when I arrived and would give the Secretary---(the person who RAN the place!) things I had forged as gifts! Used to get a couple of hundred pounds of free steel a time. More than I ever could use and so I'd share it with the local smiters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, Glenn said: If you are looking for leaf spring, go to the shop that makes leaf springs, or replaces leaf springs on vehicles Ok. Those are generally 5160, no? I will see if I can find somewhere that replaces them, see if they'd be willing to spread the wealth. 12 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: would give the Secretary---(the person who RAN the place!) things I had forged as gifts! Trust me... at the stage I'm at in my forging, people probably don't want most of my stuff as gifts... I guess I just haven't spread out as much as I need to, need to use, as Glenn said, the TPAAAT. I'm sure I'm surrounded by stuff if only I go look for it. 15 minutes ago, Glenn said: You are saying you want brass, and prefer it in sheets I was more talking bronze (I can find brass pretty easy in rifle shells), and would only need sheets if I were to use it in mokume. I have another project in the works which is a bronze and padauk letter opener for my brother (he's getting a ton of college mail), which would be cast. I found a store in Cincinnati that sells bronze, along with a bunch of other alloys and steel, so I think I'm set with that. Thank you. (Rendering of letter opener) Thank y'all for your help in this, may I say it, fiasco. I've gained a lot of excellent information which I hope I have the capabilities to put to good use. Besides, it was nice to chat with some people who have a similar interest, especially in these times where you can't talk to anyone at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 For brass, go to the gun range. Cut the base off and split the shell casing. For copper and brass, go to the plumbing supply store. Cut to length and split it the long way. Copper pipe is in the 0.049 to 0.065 range for the small pipe sizes. Thin walled copper pipe is in the 0.028 to 0.032 range. Measured in inches. You choose what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 a few problems with your clamp., It being overly large and the thin layers, it will warp and not keep pressure at temperature. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 Yes, I didn't understand that it was supposed to have two bolts... I'm gonna cut it down to an inch wide or so. Sometimes my brain just does not want to work... I'll also try to find some thicker steel, but, since I already have it, I'll probably just try this as a prototype Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 It can have 2 bolts or 3 bolts or 4 bolts or 6 bolts or however many it takes to apply the pressure evenly!---Shoot I could design one that used 1 bolt---but it would not work for differing size stacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Check with your local public school bus garage. They would save all sorts of usable steel for me. When a bus would break a leaf spring, they would replace the whole spring pack. They are heavy duty big springs. they also gave me many torsion, torque rods, axles you name it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 Take 4- Beefed up the screws, no more big hunks of steel drawing out the heat... I will try this before buying some 3/8 bar if I can't find any. I see how much the steel is warping and plan to loosen up the screws a bit.Any body got some thoughts on it? Irondragon, I didn't at all think about school buses! I thought about trucks, trailers, etc, but not buses. Thanks for the suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Chimaera, while a bracket works best when it is big and thick these thinner plates can also work, if just to hold everything in alignment. I used 1/8" thick strap plenty of times to hold coins together. the problem I am seeing here though is all the overhanging material. Ideally you want all your pieces the same size. The welds are all weak points and if you have excess material hanging out there to be bumped it will increase your delamination issues at those points. One good reason to use coins is that they are all uniform size. I would also stress the importance at this point to be as flat as possible and freshly sanded so you don't have any pesky oxide layers on the faces of your material. You won't believe how easy a virtually invisible oxide layer will mess up your hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 The plates were primarily to keep everything aligned and make it not all fall in the forge. Stressing the flatness and fresh sanding certainly makes sense. As far as the overhang, I was thinking set the weld and then immediately afterwards grind the edges smooth. Does that seem like a possibility, or am I setting myself up for failure? Thanks for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 I have done that before, as long as you don't grind against the grain it can work. Just wanted you to know it is a risk, at this game minimizing risks makes for success. Happy to help! looking forward to seeing the post with your billet in it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.