Project question

[Pat Masterson]

Good morning everyone. So I want to make a BMW symbol from 1/8” plate for a Christmas gift. It’s going to be 3” in diameter but I need to make two clean circles to give it the same look as the picture I hopefully attached here correctly. One circle all the way on the border and then a smaller one in the middle. I’m struggling to figure out what to use though...maybe I leave just a bit extra on the diameter and use like a 3” and 2” pipe or fitting that I could use kind of like a stamp? Haven’t been able to find something like that with a nice clean edge though. Or do you think I can do it with a very small chisel or will that just look like a bunch of straight chisel marks in a circle? Let me know how you think you’d might do it. Thanks!

[Glenn]

Sockets have a nice rounded edge on them.  Why not use sockets of the correct size as a die? 

[Pat Masterson]

That’s definitely the type of edge I’m looking for..but the outer circle needs to be 3” diameter or just shy of that...do they make sockets that large lol? Im imagining I’d have to buy a set if they do which may be a bit expensive for this one use

[Glenn]

Look for places that sell truck repair tools or heavy equipment tools. 

A lathe may be able to modify a piece of 3 inch round bar to fit your needs.

Just because someone else calls it a particular name does not mean it is limited to just that use.  Do not look for the name, see the possibilities that item holds.

Do not build a box and then try to think outside the box.  Without a box, everything is either an opportunity or a possibility. 

[John B]

5 hours ago, Pat Masterson said:

Good morning everyone. So I want to make a BMW symbol from 1/8” plate for a Christmas gift. It’s going to be 3” in diameter but I need to make two clean circles to give it the same look as the picture I hopefully attached here correctly. One circle all the way on the border and then a smaller one in the middle. I’m struggling to figure out what to use though...maybe I leave just a bit extra on the diameter and use like a 3” and 2” pipe or fitting that I could use kind of like a stamp? Haven’t been able to find something like that with a nice clean edge though. Or do you think I can do it with a very small chisel or will that just look like a bunch of straight chisel marks in a circle? Let me know how you think you’d might do it. Thanks!

Hi Pat, I'm a little confused with the two circles, if its going to be 3" diameter, then you only need one circle. Anyhow, this is my approach to making this item

Anneal your metal.

Mark out the finished shape you are wanting.

I would then use a small (Approx 4" long x 3/8" diameter or hex stock) radius fuller chasing tool, and a light weight hammer (12oz) and incise in the profiles and lines you want.

A Search for chasing tools for some idea of how to use and what they look like may help, hard to describe otherwise , but it will look like a blunt chisel that has a very small radius instead of a sharp edge, and instead of being square to the shank end, it has a radiuse end, the smaller this radius the more easily you can control your incised curve.

It is just a case of applying patience, and using small incremental moves, you can deepen the grooves until you get to your desired depth.

I would then cut the material to the outside diameter and chamfer the edge to give the appearance of your second, larger circle, and clean up for the finish

Looks like a fun project, enjoy.

[anvil]

That would be my way too.

[Frosty]

That's how I'd do it too. after you anneal apply a light coat of flat black or flat white spray paint. Use a compass to draw your circles using a color pencil that contrasts with the paint color. If you used black a scribe point will cut the paint ad leave a clear line of shiny steel. 

Trying to arc a chasing chisel to match the radius of the circle makes it much more difficult. A chasing chisel for lines will have a curved edge profile same as an axe. This will allow you to chase surprisingly tight curves. If you scratched the paint with a scribe point and you feel for it you can feel your chasing tool when it's in the slot (scribe mark) This is a small radius liner (chasing tool for lines) of course, easier to feel if you used a sharp chisel. I don't recommend starting with a sharp chisel, it can be harder to make a smooth bottom to the line.

The curved edge profile makes a curved impression. This sounds like a bad idea on first impression but it REALLY makes lining easier. Your first blow leaves a curved impression so you rock your chisel back until it's resting on the back corner and slide it forward until it touches the far edge of the curved impression, tilt your chisel vertical and tap it. Later rinse repeat. In maybe 4-5 blows you'll fall into a rhythm and be cruising.

Chasing a circle is as simple as leaning it like you would a bicycle and the linisher will incise a curved line in the direction it's leaning. 

This is a REALLY fun process, lots of folk get hooked on chasing and take up repousse and chasing, Altoid tins are perfect to learn. they're deep draw steel and very malleable. You'll just need to make smaller chasing tools than you'll want for your BMW  project.

Have fun, you'll love it and please keep us in the loop, we LOVE pictures you know.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Pat Masterson]

Hey John. By “two circles” I meant - if you look at the picture I attached there’s the outer most edge, then a circle that’s maybe 1/16” into the piece that kind of forms a border around the whole piece. Then there’s the bmw lettering and then the inner circle that contains the blue and white sections. I guess I could just do the inner circle but I’d like to try to get both. 
 

Everyone’s comments are really helpful though so thank you! 

I just got the plate yesterday and laid out the circle for it. I’m also doing an Angel ornament. The way I see it I have three options to cut them out with the tools I already own: 1. Cold chisel (but my cold chisels are from Amazon and not very good) 2: hacksaw or 3: dremel with cut off discs. 
So I guess I have the same question again...how would you do it?

[ThomasPowers]

I'd find someone with a plasma cutter and pay them to do it.

[John B]

Hi Pat, 

Firstly I would cut out a piece (probably 4" square) for the BMW badge from the plate, leaving a margin all the way around, makes it easir to work than a disc of the finshed size and you get equal resistance all around its perophery when casing the profile in, and incise your second circle as the first one.

When you are satisfied with your design, then cut off the excess, Hacksaw, and file or use the dremel to finish the outer diameter.

use the hacksaw as you would forge a round on the end of a square bar.  Saw the corners off near to your marking out of the outer diameter, just keep taking similar cuts from all the remaining corners as you proceed around the circumference and you generate a circle.

A square is just a circle with all its corners removed.

No need to use a chisel, this may distort your edges, and if the chisels aren't very good, then consider re-hardening and tempering them, they should at least be made from a suitable steel for their use.

For the angel profile, then hacksaw and dremel (or file) to finish.

[Frosty]

It doesn't take much to forge chisels from yard/garage sale Allan wrenches or El'Cheapo punch/chisel sets. If you want a raised border around the BMW badge you need to chase all the rest down with a flat faced chisel, usually square or round ended. This would be the perfect time to leave the letters raised as well. It'll appear attractive and save you a bunch of chasing.

Trying to cut the inner ring with a Dremel with any tool other than a pantorgaph only sounds like a good idea to folk who've never tried it. It's WAY harder than I thought and I tried several times, I'm stubborn. Free hand was just a bunch of chattery skid marks. I made a compass and while better was chattery no good. I then build a weighted mount for the Dremel and heavier more rigid compass arm, worked better but still no joy. Didn't work with my Foredom or pneumatic die grinder either.

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

Here's the chisel shape I would use. It is designed to do curves. Every profile I show can be changed depending on your needs. You also are not limited by holding the tool in the vertical. In these pics all my angles and faces are very gently radiused. That's what I wanted for my last job. The radius's edges and top back face enable you to walk this chisel around your radius without creating dings and peter tracks. The bottom three pics show the tool doesn't need to be used in the vertical, but at any angle. 

To add to Frosty above, let's look at your outer circle. Once you scribe your outer diameter I would use this cold work tool to actually cut out my initial shape. You will have very little cleanup. Then on the inner circumference of the top circle, use this tool ad in pic 6(lol, I hope!)to define your inner diameter. You now can do Frosty states above to create the raised border without dinging the circle. You might find you have enough fake reveal to create the illusion of it being sunk. Repeat on the inner circle and letters. It does straight lines as well as curved.

 

 

 

 

[Frosty]

Nice chisel. It's more like one I'd use for inlay but I could chase with it.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Pat Masterson]

Thanks guys. Super helpful especially not cutting it to the finish size with the first cut. I’ll let you know how it goes! 

[anvil]

 

7 hours ago, Frosty said:

I'd use for inlay

Interesting, but only 4 of the six pics came thru.

You can use it for anything but it's primary function is curves and curves with graduated champfwrs on the outer edge.

If you look at the second pic, the front diagonal face, it has a double radius. It's radiused fore and aft as well as left and right. You can literally turn it on a dime in both directions and gets smooth transition. Like I said all radius are very flat due to its last use.

 

Mod note: 8 photos came through, we removed the duplicates

[teenylittlemetalguy]

I will apologize first about potentially making your project more difficult--

Have you thought about doing actual enamel on it like the real badges? 

The enamels sold for copper and silver will work on mild steel and there is a wide array of colors available...

Here are a few pieces I did, if you apply thicker you can get solid colors. It will not be a perfect as a real badge, but I assume you are not going for perfect if you are starting with steel anyway. 

[ThomasPowers]

Cold Enamels also work well if applied properly.

[Pat Masterson]

Oh man...the enamels might look really good..I almost wish I hadn’t seen that haha. 

[teenylittlemetalguy]

Ha! My work here is done...8-)

 

[Frosty]

Where do you get your enamels Tristan?

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

very cool enamel work!

[teenylittlemetalguy]

19 hours ago, Frosty said:

Where do you get your enamels Tristan?

Frosty The Lucky.

Thompson enamels sells a sample kit with a huge array of colors, both opaque and translucent. I picked mine up from Seattle Pottery Supply, but they are available from any decent Jewelry supply. Rio Grande currently has the kit #119308 for $166.90

A note on the translucent ones on steel- they will all turn black. But they are just as easy to use on copper or silver and nice to have on hand. I made a life size cardinal Christmas ornament with red over copper just recently.  The opaque ones are best to use on steel. You don't need a torch for the steel pieces either, you can heat your item to orange in the forge and just sprinkle the powder on.  (be careful and wear a mask as the dust can blow around and it is a health hazard to your lungs and eyes.) 

17 hours ago, anvil said:

very cool enamel work!

thank you!

[Frosty]

Okay, thanks Tristan. I was hoping you had a local source for individual colors. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[teenylittlemetalguy]

Rio Grande sells it in single colors as well. Dark Blue is 119470, $10.15 for 2 oz currently. When you search for your color make sure you don't get the liquid, it is more expensive and would be harder to apply to a big hot chunk of steel. 

[Pat Masterson]

So I ended up going with just brass plating for the finish. The project did not come out how I wanted, especially the letters themselves. I wish I had thought to make the tool for stamping in the letters before I had tried the other ridiculous ideas. I’ve heard rebar isn’t good for tool making but I guess I got lucky and had some higher grade stuff because they definitely hardened. First time making any kind of tool  myself (chasing chisel and I guess it would be called a small square punch? - although it’s intent and use was not to punch holes) and hardening and tempering so that was a lot of fun. Could’ve been much better and I wish I had got better pictures before giving it to the person it was for but I learned a lot. Thanks for the advice and ideas though.