Jobtiel1 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Hello everyone, I just signed up to ask this question. I am restoring my great-great-grandfathers Leg vise, but the pivot bolt is completely rusted shut. I managed to get the nut off, but after repeated applying of WD-40, Penetrating oil, rust removal solution, and hammer blows on both the bolt and nut side, as well as the area between the two side plates and the moving jaw, the bolt just wont budge. the jaw won't budge either. Do you have any tips for me to get this bolt out? the thread is already slightly mushroomed so I need a new one anyway, so destructive methods are not a problem. see the picture attached for the vise. the bolt I'm talking about is in the top right corner. The vise has been outside in the garden for 20 something years, and the thread is in good enough shape to still be able to restore. Thanks in advance for your replies, Job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Do not be in a hurry to get things apart. Use a good penetrating oil, and apply twice a day with a light tap on the part or hammer against a piece of wood so you do not deform the metal. It took a while to rust together, so be patient and let the penetrating oil do it's job. When it does finally loosen up a bit, more penetrating oil and any small movement means the oil is getting deeper and deeper into the joint. Only go as far as the joint allows, and come back tomorrow. DO NOT push the process, let the penetrating oil work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 I have been doing this for 3 days now. Since I'm new to this I guess I should continue on a little longer. Thank you for the reply! Job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Try a 50/50 mix of atf and acetone. It is a far better penetrating oil and less expensive. Atf=automatic transmission fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 In the past i have had good results with PTFE spray (dont go for the transparent ones, go for the xxxx yellow ones) Or just gently heating up the metal, a little bit of expansion can do wonders on rusted parts. Cyclon 5 X 1 spray When i was a cycle mender i used this on just about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 Thanks for the tips! I have thought about using heat. However, I dont have a handheld burner at the moment, and the makeshift forge I currently use is not really suitable to heat this big a piece. I think I will try using ATF/aceton mix, as I still have some aceton somewhere. I'd rather use the less expensive options first before buying a burner to heat up the bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 My general method is to apply penetrating oil every weekend and try it the next weekend. I usually will go about 2 months max and then move to more aggressive methods! If it's not something that will be damaged by heating then heating with a torch or forge can work miracles as the rust dehydrates when heated towards a low glow. If you will be replacing the bolt and have access to a good drill press; you can drill it out starting small and stepping up towards the diameter of the original bolt. I have had to replace worn bolts before, sometimes cleaning up the holes with a drill a step up from the original size and one time when the vise had a major offset of the jaws vertically I filled in the original hole (heat shrunk and bradded in a plug) and redrilled it to align the jaws. Can you get something like a small car screw jack in up by the jaws and apply some pressure that way? (wedges also can help. Once you can get the jaws to move a tiny bit usually they can be soaked in penetrating oil and worked back and forth gaining a bit more throw over time until they are free. The rust/oil slurry that forms makes a good lapping compound to smooth the joints out as you work it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 Damaging the bolt is not a problem, as I deformed the thread to a point where I can no longer re-use it. so applying heat is the next step if oil alone wont work. Its funny that you mention the car jack as I have tried this, only the vise was stronger than the car jack was, so I had to give that up before completely wrecking the jack. thanks for your advie as I suspect when the pivot bolt finally comes loose the jaws might still need some work before moving too. But man its going to be so satisfying when it is back in working order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I hope you are already using penetrating oil along the "cheeks" of the joint too as they may be rusted tight too. One of my general things I do for a new vise is to take it apart and check out the cheeks of the joint and sand them smooth if rusty and grease them before putting it back together. They can be quite pitted and still work well as long as they are smooth rather than "locking". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 Thanks for the heads-up, I have been doing this the first two days, mostly WD-40 with rust remover. but since I've stopped doing it I will continue with penetrating oil (not WD-40) now. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Surely you can allow some time to undo what it took 20 year to do. How much time? Between now and when it breaks loose. Slow and steady will get the job done. It is too nice a tool to damage it just by being inpatient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Got access to a hammer drill? Just letting it vibrate the bolt can help get the oil to penetrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Since you got the nut off, why not place into the vice, fill out the head of the bolt so it can move and start applying pressure on it? Steady force applied over a longer time does more then hitting it with a hammer. Would be even better it you could use a hydraulic press or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Got access to a hammer drill? Just letting it vibrate the bolt can help get the oil to penetrate. Hi, I do, at least one of those stone drills which I assume is the kind of drill you are talking about. I haven't thought of this, thanks! After dinner I'm doing another spray of oil so I will do this together with a couple of hammer hits from now on. 2 minutes ago, Deimos said: Since you got the nut off, why not place into the vice, fill out the head of the bolt so it can move and start applying pressure on it? I have difficulty imagining what you mean by this. Are you saying I should put the bolt in the little vise and use the whole legvise as a lever to apply more pressure? If yes, I can confidently say that more pressure will nog get the bolt loose, as I've tried applying a lot with the use of a lever already. If you meant something else would you be able to elaborate? Thanks for the reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Does this make it better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 As new people tend not to have screw presses or hydraulic presses and more problems can occur with "more power!" The metal is usually soft and so you can end up bending the plates if you are not careful. You can also break the vise you are using to apply pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 37 minutes ago, Deimos said: Does this make it better? Yes, I understand what you mean, unfortunately I do but trust my current vise enough to even hold it without possibly falling of the workbench, and even then I think it is too small to apply enough pressure. I will keep the idea in mind though as I know some people who do have a vise that can be used to do this. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Will it bend if you put a pipe over the bolthead? then the force is pretty much concentrated on the bolt. And the idea behind my solution was more to put constant force on the bolt while it sat overnight, not brute forcing it out. Something that is also an option, but a risky and labor intensive one (i have no idea how to describe it in english, so sorry guys) In de oude fabriek waar ik werkte gebruikte we vaak iets wat we een ram pin noemde, wat het is is een lange bout die door een zwaar stuk metaal zit. Dit zwaar stuk metaal kan schuiven over de bout, en word gestopt door de kop van de bout. Over de draad van de bout schroefde we dan een bus waar een gat in zat, door dat gat stak een klein boutje, m6 12.9. dan boorde en tapte we m6 in het gene dat los moest komen, draaide daar de bus met m6 bout in, draaide de grote bout met gewicht in de bus. Als je nu dat stuk zwaar metaal met kracht tegen de kop van de bout ramde kon je heel goed kracht in een richting zetten. In the old factory where I worked, we often used what we called a ram pin, which is a long bolt through a heavy piece of metal. This heavy piece of metal can slide over the bolt and is stopped by the head of the bolt. Over the thread of the bolt we then screwed a bush with a hole in it, through that hole a small bolt, m6 12.9. then we drilled and tapped m6 into the material that had to be released, screwed in the bush with m6 bolt, screwed the large bolt with weight into the bush. If you now hit that piece of heavy metal with force against the head of the bolt you could very well put force in one direction. Deimos, do the best you can and we will try to translate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, Deimos said: Will it bend if you put a pipe over the bolthead? then the force is pretty much concentrated on the bolt. And the idea behind my solution was more to put constant force on the bolt while it sat overnight, not brute forcing it out. Applying constant force makes much more sense, thanks! I will have a look soon if I can fit the leg vise in the bench vise. The other idea makes sense too, I will try it if it takes me too much time. Bedankt voor de info! Komt zeker goed van pas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I do have a large screwpress and a lot of heavy stock with various holes in it just for such tasks. I also have what would have been a US$900 machinist vise except a previous owner broke the casting trying to apply too much pressure, (large Chas Parker vice), now it's just spare parts. The old factory method of applying localized pressure sounds useful. Though cycling the pressure may work better to help suck in the penetrating oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Somewhat off topic, anyone know what the name is of the thing i drew up? If you cant drill a hole in it, you could also change the thing i drew where you weld it to the bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 If I understand the drawing, I’ve always called that a slide hammer. The get used very frequently in our plant for pulling dowel pins. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Slide hammer here. Many sizes and ways to attach to the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 slide hammer AKA BamBam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John R Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Look at my post in this thread: your link sending people off site to your commercial site has been removed as per ToS Sorry I do not have a commercial site. Do not understand your comment. The link I posted was a link to a thread on this site. I am guessing your software did this, darn, I was in the process of editing when the warning flashed. Gee, you do not give a guy time to correct his mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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