1/4” burner with choke build. Picture heavy

[671jungle]

Burner parts: 1/4” hose barb, mig tip(.035 or smaller), 1/4” coupling x 2, 5” long 1/4” nipple, .015 ID edm tube.Mig tip will not fit in hose barb as is.chuck the mig up in a drill and turn the threads down with a file.just enough to press fit into hose barb.braze the joint.use tiny drill to drill out the mig enough to fit the edm tube.drill only about 3/8” deep.approximate length of edm tube and cut using a jewelers file.

use tiny drills to clean burrs off the edm tube then gently sand smooth with fine grit paper.press tube into mig tip.carefully braze tube to mig. (I did a horrible job here). And that is the jet!use a bolt or another hose barb and tape the barb or threaded part of the screw enough to make a snug fit into the 1/4” nipple.mark every other corner on the nipple. This will indicate location of intake holes.measure 4” from end of nipple and mark.drill pilot hole.drill a bigger hole. I used 3/16”.angle drill bit towards the flame side of the burner.Chuck a rat tail close to the ID of the 1/4” nipple and clean out the inside. Warning: this might hurt your drills chuck.

For a choke, I cut the threads off a 1/2” nipple and cleaned out the inside till it slipped over the burner. I also cut a line through it to make it more smooth moving. 
Below is video of the goods.

Notes: the 1/4” may have a seam on the inside. The rat tail technique will take care of this but the seam must be removed. Burrs on the end of the burner and around the intakes must be cleaned up as well as microburrs on the ends of the edm tubes. Use a magnifying glass to see these. Also I used an old 1/4” coupling for my nozzle. This particular build needs minor tuning in the nozzle area to lean the flame out. 

 

[Mikey98118]

At least increased the size of your air openings, until your flame turns blue--not blue green.

[671jungle]

Thank you Mike. Will do. I read somewhere here that wider openings dump more air into the system than longer openings.

Any thoughts on nozzle types for this small a burner? I would like to try and keep it as fast as possible.

316 Stainless couplings for nozzles are in the mail.

Sorry the post is all over the place. I posted with my phone.

[Mikey98118]

I have stated that wider air openings, on Mikey burners, give a harder flame, and longer narrower openings give greater control of the flame--but not why that is, just that it is so.

Speculation; that what is true of rectangular openings will apply to other designs somewhat. How much, will depend on the shape of those openings. Holes create vortices; so do corners; as do flat edges. The question for each is how much, as compared to the others? Holes = maximum. Corners less than holes. Flat edges least.

This is not a case of "my way or the highway." Every thing in a burner's design can be used to balance out every other thing. My way--maximum flat edges in air openings--turns out to be a "pain in the six" by the time your burner is down to 1/4"; it's just too much work for too little gain. So, dropping back to some curves in the air openings of small burners will benefit you. I approve of your direction; it only needs more tinkering, so tinker away

Getting back to vortices at the air openings; think of them as air brakes (pun intended). I designed my burners to be without brakes; great for most sizes; bad for really small sizes.

You only need a little push, so change those tear drops into slots; just a suggestion.

[671jungle]

Stainless couplings came today so I turned one into a nozzle. Also enlarged the intakes per Mike. 

[Mikey98118]

In the first place that is a hot flame; complete combustion in the primary flame envelope.

In the second place, you have produced a flame hot flame without creating one that is too hard, so that you should have a good turn down range from your burner.

In the third place you managed this feat in a very small burner size; that is very hard to achieve.

BRAVO!!!

[Frosty]

NICE BURNER, REALLY NICE!

Frosty The Lucky.

[671jungle]

 shucks, thanks y’all. I have fun makin’em. How many of these do you think it would take to get to welding heat in an appropriately built forge. BTW, the two burners in the gallon sized forge go quite a ways on a bbq tank.

[Mikey98118]

How many burners would simply depend on how large a forge. Most people try hard to avoid building more than one or two burners. However, multiple burners have a similar advantage to ribbon burners, for the same reason behind ribbon burners; they are thrifty.

[Frosty]

The number or size burner to forge volume is laid out early and repeatedly in both burners and forges 101 sections. Heck I think it's pinned in the stickies. 

The rule of thumb is burner output is directly in relation to the area of the CROSS SECTION of the narrowest point in the mixing tube. I refer to that section as the "Throat" of the mixing tube. Remember, output is dependent on the SQUARE of the diameter, a 1/2" burner develops 1/4 the output of a 1" burner. Making four 1/2" burners equivalent to a single 1" burner in a 600-700 cu/in chamber. Perfect for a long narrow chamber. Yes? More, smaller burners means the over all flame velocity is lower and the flame hangs IN the forge for a longer time and transfers more energy to the forge walls to heat your projects via IR radiation.

The requirement of a typical double lined forge, Kaowool outer liner + hard refractory flame face inner liner. is dependent on it's volume IF the interior is relatively mono dimensional. Propane or refrigerant cylinders are close enough to mono dimensional a single burner will work. However 2 smaller burners provides significantly more even temperature in the chamber.

Mono dimensional means the 3 dimensions of the chamber are the same: sphere or cube for example, A cylinder 10" ID x 10" length is mono dimensional enough be as good as. 8" x 10" is okay. 8" x 16" is too long for a single burner to heat evenly. Having a HOT zone and the remainder COOLER might suit your needs. For general smithing I LIKE a hot spot but that's me.

A number of the guys in our club are making beautiful blades in single 1/2" burner, 200 cu/in clamped IFB forges.  The cambers are about 4 1/2" x 5" x 9". 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[FlatLiner]

Nice burner Jungle.

[pnut]

Bravo. 

Pnut

[ede]

Nice build!  Is the recommendation to use EDM tubes instead of mig tips now, or is it because you went down to 1/4" burner size?  Also, it looks like you have a conical nozzle is the first photo but did not use it?  Where did you find your stainless coupling?  

[671jungle]

37 minutes ago, ede said:

Nice build!  Is the recommendation to use EDM tubes instead of mig tips now, or is it because you went down to 1/4" burner size?  Also, it looks like you have a conical nozzle is the first photo but did not use it?  Where did you find your stainless coupling?  

Correct. I did not use the nozzle in the first photo. It was just to show number components. Dispensing needles can also be used, but I have found EDM tubes to be much more economical and easier to braze to the pig tip which almost fits into refrigeration tubes(1/4” copper tube) that can be purchased at most big box hardware stores. The couplings were bought in bulk on the “Bay” for a reasonable price. I must say that two  of these burners are extremely fuel efficient for forging. Maybe one more will be needed for forge welding or I need to reconfigure my forge chamber. Bottom mounted burners in a D shaped forge are great at keeping the flame inside the forge longer to transfer its heat to the liner but the wide opening to my forge also let’s a lot of energy out. All in all, these burners are amazing on fuel savings. I think I may be able to forge weld with the two burners if I can keep the heat longer in a given space 

[ede]

14 minutes ago, 671jungle said:

Correct. I did not use the nozzle in the first photo. It was just to show number components. Dispensing needles can also be used, but I have found EDM tubes to be much more economical and easier to braze to the pig tip which almost fits into refrigeration tubes(1/4” copper tube) that can be purchased at most big box hardware stores. The couplings were bought in bulk on the “Bay” for a reasonable price. I must say that two  of these burners are extremely fuel efficient for forging. Maybe one more will be needed for forge welding or I need to reconfigure my forge chamber. Bottom mounted burners in a D shaped forge are great at keeping the flame inside the forge longer to transfer its heat to the liner but the wide opening to my forge also let’s a lot of energy out. All in all, these burners are amazing on fuel savings. I think I may be able to forge weld with the two burners if I can keep the heat longer in a given space 

Oh nice!  Mikey helped me with a 3/8" canister mount torch conversion, which connected to a universal torch extension hose, however those hoses go directly into the regulator and it seems like the needle valve or something somewhere is regulated.  What size EDM tube did you use for yours and what CU IN size forge you plan to put these in?  Will send you a PM on who you bought those couplings from, I may want to play.  

 

[Mikey98118]

The second video shows a blue ribbon flame

[671jungle]

https://youtu.be/uPm8ZLQ26xo
here is slow motion of two of burner in a small forge. The mini keg is a gallonish the forge chamber is like half a gal. And gets very hot. It may just need a better forge design to get to welding. Maybe just a door.  But it has been my main forge for most things and goes quite the distance. I have a large 2 burner 3/4” forge for the anything larger.

EDM tubes are .015” ID

you can find them on the “bay” under drawn brass tubes. Be sure to put the specified ID in the search 

Also, the 1/4” pipe nipple is 5”. I made a mistake in an earlier post about this burners tube being longer than that. The correct length is 5”.

 

Well I thought it was slow mo

[Mikey98118]

A brick wall in front of the opening would allow you to answer the question without a lot of hassle. From what I see, it looks very likely.

BTW, even though you didn't use it for the burner's flame retention nozzle, what is that shiny part in the first photo?

[671jungle]

2 minutes ago, Mikey98118 said:

what is that shiny part in the first photo?

Thanks for the input Mike, that is encouraging. I would be a happy camper if I could weld with such small equipment. As for the part I think it is a fitting of a shower/bath hose connection. I used it for another build awhile back and it worked but was not a very practical component as it did not allow for an easy connect at the end of the mix tube.

[Mikey98118]

Ah well. Us junkyard junkies are always on the lookout for one more handy thing to repurpose

[Mikey98118]

I forgot to ask.  How long did your capillary tube gas orifice end up? That will make all the difference to anyone trying to tread your path. The number 80 drill bit means that you ended up with a 0.0135" orifice diameter, but such small orifices produce a lot of friction, so I've found that burner performance can literally be tuned in with 400 grit sandpaper. But people need a ballpark length to start from.

[671jungle]

Nice catch, yes very important. I will measure tomorrow. 

[Mikey98118]

Thanks,

The people following behind you, will be  saved a lot of grief.

[671jungle]

On 1/11/2021 at 10:21 AM, Mikey98118 said:

Thanks,

The people following behind you, will be  saved a lot of grief.

I am so sorry Mike! I totally got caught up in my bubble. I will do it in the morning. But from what I can recall, I drilled the intake holes 4” from the flame end of the mix tube then made the cut for the jet to be a little past the start of the intake which would give room for tuning. Since most of the assembly is threaded together, tuning the distance of the jet is as easy as turning the coupling the hose barb is threaded into or the hose barb itself or both effectively adjusting the distance on such a small system. However they may be slight differences.

Again, my apologies for not responding sooner