ThomasPowers Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Yes we are basically sitting around the wood stove eating peanuts and talking about life. We all have different views and different experiences that shaped those views. Hard to say that one set is superior to another. I cheerfully direct students to Frank Turley's school as I know I'm only giving a "taste" suitable for hobby smiths; (though I know one who went on to become a pro.) My Mother told me that they always had a pan of unshelled peanuts on the woodstove as a snack; they raised them on their farm in rural Oklahoma, how rural? One of her jobs as a child was to refill the coal oil lamps as they didn't have electricity.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 There's also a BIG difference between standing next to someone whom I just demonstrated something and giving advice over the internet. In my shop I gauge the person and tailor what I show and tell them to the individual. If someone insists on making a blade I offer them coil or leaf spring of various sizes and try to coach them along. Can't do that online, the best I can do is suggest taking it in steps. If a person wants to learn blacksmithing by forging a Claymore I'll try and coach them. It's their shop, their rules. Mostly I show people how I do things and point out what happened and why. The only real mistakes are safety and tool abuse. I've had to 86 a couple for refusing to observe safety and abuse rules. One got really angry angry at me because I wouldn't tell him the secret of making a knife. Actually said "secret." It didn't help when I pointed out his only problem was a lack of hammer control I let him use one of my slab side handled hammers and his control improved a lot. Instead of being happy, he demanded I show him how to forge a knife . . . AGAIN. I can't I'm not a bladesmith. He picked up his over heavy hammers and left. Later I realized he picked up the 5/4" x 4" clear straight grain cabinet quality hickory board I use to make my hammer handles. Walked off with a 4.5' piece worth probably $30 at the time. He showed up at other guy's places a couple more times and faded away when they wouldn't show him the secret either. For the record I don't say DO NOT make blades without knowing the craft, I recommend an easier faster more sure method. Lastly for the record the preceding is just my opinion. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 You should have told them the secret to making a knife is practice, practice, practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 People like that will never listen to reason, they just want You to tell Them how they should do something, they will just refuse to put in the time. "the difference between a master and a beginner is that the master has failed more times then the beginner has started" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 I did, not in his world though. It was sad, he had very little hands on skill at the anvil, he curled a piece of leaf spring into a handleless Viking toasting iron. Wouldn't even consider he straighten it as he went, nope there's a secret I wouldn't tell him. I'm pretty rotten like that. I need to think of some of the other folk I've shown what I could. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Rotten? Meh, when i teach people my martial arts i am pretty much the same, all you get from me is "No" when you do it wrong. Maybe after you tried it 1000 times will i start giving you hints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 When I was learning the martial arts Sensei would tell you how, say no but if you insisted on doing it wrong he'd kick or knock you down to illustrate. Stances especially got swept for doing it wrong. Students did most of the instruction. You learn a LOT faster teaching someone else. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 The good old days where you would just be corrected the hard way. If you try that now a day you have no students, and a lawsuit or 2. My old teacher would just ask us if our stance was correct, and we where not aloud to say no, (if you know your stance is wrong, why are you standing like that) and he would test us, and if we where lucky he would not use a stick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Weighing 35 pounds with cast ornamentation on the ends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 umm perhaps wrong thread Thomas? or just making reference to that as example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 A tap with the split bamboo Bo stick was the gentle cue. The Senseis were all pretty gentle, physical corrections were only enough to make the point. It wasn't a Karate club, we were a "self defense" school, we learned to defend ourselves effectively over particular forms. If you didn't expect bruises and occasional blood loss you were in the wrong school. We learned blocks against the Bo stick and strikes against the makawara boards or cinder block wall outside once we'd gotten good enough. The wall wasn't to develop callus it was to develop control. If one of us actually got in a fight the senseis would hold a hearing and decide how to deal. Our #1 defense was a fast pair of legs, running around the block for an hour was a good deterrent for misusing the arts. Some of my better years, then we moved and commute time to my job cut my class time to next to nothing. I couldn't make my standards so stopped attending. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Steve; just a joke about using a "stick"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Francis Whitaker said many times that you could make as many mistakes as you wanted, and he would point you in the right direction. But make the same mistake twice and you were gone. He always let his students use the shop at night. A friend and good Smith was working for him and one night did not shut off the ox/acetl. He was "corrected the next morning. The next night he again forgot. The next morning he was gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Students who think that the teacher is *lucky* to get to teach *them*; are usually escorted from the class and referred to the school of hard knocks out in the real world. (I've has one student who told me that no matter how obnoxious/unsafe he was; I had to teach him because he had paid for the class. I refunded his money on the spot and pointed him towards the door. I tell them my three rules at the start: You have to listen and follow directions, You have to be safe around other people while working hot steel, You have to be safe around yourself when working hot steel. Making a pretty piece is not required---I tell them that if you hold your piece up and folks around you start projectile vomiting because of it's ugliness they still have passed the class, *if* they have followed the 3 rules.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 How about the folks who spend their time socializing, compared to folk who crack a book at least for part of their spare timee. If you know how to do or where to look for a thing they need, they tell you you're "lucky" to know so much. I have a standard reply for the annoying, "you're just a know it all," folks. "It only looks that way to some people." Ask a favor and insult you for doing it. <SHEESH> Yeah, I read all the time though not while socializing. I usually do have something to read in the car if things get dull. I don't have a lot of rules in my shop but rarely stand for repeat violations. I've taught a few special needs kids and some just don't understand, I didn't know how to explain well enough my failure. They are a special case and more rewarding for me than I could've believed. No, not one went on to become a blacksmith, that's not what they were her for. They leaned they could use tools IF they listened and tried what they were told. Calming down and asking again if they didn't understand was a HUGE lesson. What I pushed was there is no shame or wrong about not knowing or understanding things. No need to panic. The thank you letters were wonderful. One of my better times in life. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I wish the teacher where as strict over here, during my time learning to be a welder nobody had any respect for the teacher, and they could not do anything about getting rid of students. I think the only removed one, because he was selling coke... But then again, they hardly thought us anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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