Forging a path Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Hey everyone I’m new to metal working and I have gotten myself a cast master propane furnace and have been tinkering with it making ingots of aluminum and copper I’m really excited to see what I can do with this and I’m open to anything anyone can teach me about forging metals also if anyone knows any good places to get tools and supplies in Ontario Canada id really appreciate if you could let me know about it haha I can’t seem to find any shops or anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 You will have to be a bit more specific as to what you are looking for as far as tools and supplies. There are many places that sell tools and supplies, and even specialty items and supplies in Ontario Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Welcome aboard... We won't remember your location once leaving this post, hence the suggestion to edit your profile to show it. We have several members in your area and I bet they can help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Welcome aboard, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you'll have a better chance of meeting members who live within visiting distance. Every hour you spend with an experienced smith is worth many times as much trying to figure it out yourself. We're blacksmiths, not carnival sideshow memory types, we aren't going to remember where you are as soon as we open a different thread. I hate to break it to you, you being so new to the forum and all but casting furnaces don't make good forge furnaces. Sure they can be MADE to work, just not very well any more than a propane forge makes a very good melter. You can however PROBABLY use the propane burner from your melter in a forge. I can't say for sure but maybe. Check out Forges 101 and Burners 101 for the most current discussions regarding forges and burners. Home builds and commercial forges and burners. There's a lot there, you'll want: a comfy chair, snacks and beverages. What else do you have for tools and equipment? And just so you know we often type and post at the same time. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging a path Posted October 28, 2020 Author Share Posted October 28, 2020 Hey all thanks for the messages and I’m really looking into casting metals vs blade smithing. I picked up a cast master propane furnace, it came with a pair of tongs (that aren’t very good in my opinion) it also came with a pretty ok crucible Glenn I’m looking for basically everything tool wise as I’m just starting out and am not really sure what all I actually need haha , Irondragon ForgeClay Works Thanks I’m glad I found this community as most people on here seem nice and knowledgeable and I’m looking forward to learning from all of you , and I believe I just did add my location just now or at least I’m hoping I did haha , Frosty thank you for the warm welcome and I was hoping to do casting work before I get into blade smithing and the like and I just have the kit I bought ( propane furnace,tongs and a crucibles) and an Ingot mold so far ,but I’m looking into sand casting so I could make unique designs but I definitely want to get into blade smithing and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul TIKI Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Hi there, welcome!. I'm really new here too. If I have any sort of take away to getting started the thing you need most is a desire to learn. Don't have an anvil? Look at the thread Need a Forge? There is a huge amount of information under "Forges" ranging from solid fuel to propane and all over the place. Tools? you can get a wire brush, cross peen hammer or ball peen hammer really cheap at your local hardware store. Most of all, read and search, ask questions and LISTEN. The folks here are great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 You should spend some time learning about casting. Sand casting, green sand casting, lost wax casting, are just a few of the terms and methods you need to sort out before you melt metal. SAFETY should be first on your list with casting. What are you going to do with a quantity of HOT liquid metal if something goes wrong and you have to abort the process? It happened to me and I went to plan B, plan C, and on down the line very quickly. Do you even have a plan B ? Hold wanting to build a fire and use and redirect that excitement toward learning all there is to know about casting and how many different ways there are to cast safely. One oops and a hospital visit or even a short stay can ruin your future. Make a plan B first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 14 hours ago, Forging a path said: I’m really looking into casting metals vs blade smithing. Your first post indicated you'd just picked up a propane melter and in the same paragraph said you wished to learn bladesmithing. Uh huh. Don't sweat it, it's a matter of terminology, it's really common for folk not to know a foundry and forge are two different things if related by a similar need for a HOT fire. Melting aluminum cans and scrap plumbing and wire is a LONG way from casting. Though I suppose a person could claim pouring ingots as casting but that's a REALLY thin technicality. Do you have ANY idea how dangerous molten metal is? Even the lowest melt temp metals that have a practical use can and WILL scar and disfigure you with a single mistake. Lead melts at 621f. Tin 441f. al. 1220f. Do you know what happens to water when it makes the phase shift to steam? Expands, yes, know how much? 212f. water expands 1,700 times the volume when it shifts to 212F. steam. 600f. steam expands considerably more and with an equivalently greater force. 1220f. steam expands on the order of 6,000 x. That means a drop of water can spray 20 lbs. of molten aluminum more than 30'. The contents of the crucible will pass your face faster than you can close your eyes. It WILL light your clothes, if flammable, on fire instantly, cause 3rd. degree and worse burns on contact with your skin. Are you playing with molten aluminum and copper in a thoroughly fire proof area? Wood, paper, cloth, plastic, ANY flammable liquids, etc. will ignite on contact with molten aluminum let alone 1980f. copper. A splash of molten copper on your hide will cause it to ignite, literally flash with flame. Casting on a concrete floor? Spill molten aluminum on concrete and the concrete WILL spall from steam explosions as the high temp causes it to break down into lime and water. This WILL blow molten aluminum a long way. This I've seen personally and helped perform first aid on folk until emergency services arrived. That was in high school metal shop class. I was outside the hood over the hot area. We're not trying to discourage you from taking up either of these very satisfying crafts. We just want you to have an appreciation of just how dangerous they can be and do some reading about safe practices and equipment. Playing with molten metal without a clue as to what you're doing is LITERALLY as dangerous as playing with dynamite. Worse in many ways, as anybody who's seen a Road Runner cartoon has a clue about mishandling dynamite. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshj Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 ^ frosty just imparted some... scary, but very, very important information. I spent a year or so working in an aluminum foundry in Michigan when younger. We made fuel and air intake manifolds, brackets, etc... for the automotive industry. We melted aluminum in 1,000 lb gas fired crucible pots and hand poured it in steel, clay lined ladles. In that year, I went to the hospital three times with third degree burns. From minor incidents. One of my friends that worked there- forgot to tie his work boot one day. That simple lapse... cost him his life. He tripped carrying a full ladle, and burned 75% of his upper body. He succumbed to his injuries after weeks of suffering. Be very sure in what you're doing. This is not a field to experiment in lightly. I watched a 1,000 lb of aluminum explode, because the guy feeding them dropped a cold, wet, 20lb ingot in the wrong pot. One wrong move is all it takes. Having said all that- I'm curently planning my process of/in melting some brass to pour small slabs for knife fittings. It's been a month, and I'm still just planning and researching. Even with my experience around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging a path Posted October 29, 2020 Author Share Posted October 29, 2020 Thank you for all the information and i do fully understand the dangers of melting metals down and am doing everything to make sure that I am doing things a safe as possible. Having grown up knowing workers from a local steel plant and hearing all of their stories about the horrors of injuries. I also have experience in welding and working with plasma cutters and have been a safety manager on construction job sites so going into this I am being as careful as I can and I’m interested in casting as I find all the designs that you can cast very interesting and I do really want to get into. Blade smithing and the like and I know my foundry won’t work for that but due to a small budget I have to wait to get a proper forge . Thank you all again for all of the Information you have shared with me and I don’t take it as a discouragement I take it as more experienced people sharing their thoughts and concerns with me and I really appreciate it Also sorry if what I say comes off as confusing in any way I’m not the best writer and just kinda type how my brain thinks haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshj Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Nope, you're all good. I find communicating the hardest thing to do properly. Whats in my head is already four times past whats coming out of my mouth... lol. I am really drawn to, and fascinated by old casting work. To me, a statue thats 100 plus years old- but looks just like a real person proportionally and accurately... is simply an amazing feat. How technology savvy are you? One suggestion I'd make is something I've thought of for some time... 3d printing. They have some awesome filaments now that make insane molds possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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