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I Forge Iron

Another step forward!


ThomasPowers

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Here's a recommended " tool" for those who choose to live "utility challenged".  A propane on demand hot water heater. With the '50's vintage propane stove that came with the '52 trailer and a washing machine, we used about a hundred# bottle of propane every couple of months. 

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Yeah, but in extreme cold temperatures hot water freezes faster than cold water, although that's not really relevant.

FWIW, I installed a propane tankless water heater in the house a couple months ago.  It probably uses a little less than the previous tank version, but the up front cost is a lot more and I had to make modifications to the gas, electric, and water lines in the house.   Knowing what I know now I probably would have gone with another tank version, but on the bright side the tankless unit should last about twice as long.

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Small tankless are really affordable, I went that route for the wash house, Takes 60f ground water to 120 for the washing machine, wash sink and outside shower. I will probably go the same route for the house, tho a Steve Beard )spelling?) style solar collector to meet Sandy’s need for a bath tub might be required. needless to say I only need to service one bath, and no dishwasher, lol
 

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9 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

" I went that route for the wash house", 

Charles, I haven't heard that term used for decades....my Mom had one!!

When I was in the service living off base in San Antonio, we did our laundry at a place that had a big sign over the door..."The Warsh House", LOL. (We always called it the warsh house, too!).

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14 hours ago, Frosty said:

One of the guys I used to work with always asked for a slice of raw onion on his burger. 

DARNED atuocorrect! I have it turned off but spellings keep being changed. <GRRRR>

The guy I worked with asked for "RAR" onion on a burger and drove a "CAW." He spoke native Bostonian.

Maybe quote marks around "RAR" will preserve it as written.

Frosty The Lucky.

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23 hours ago, Buzzkill said:

I probably would have gone with another tank version

 

My experience says different. Besides space saving, A tank-less system is pretty much all copper tubing whilst a hot water tank is cast steel or iron. Copper doesn't rust out.  ;)

As for cost, replacing a tank with a complete tankless system is more expensive, but the cost difference, both being new, is not that bad.

I started with an old small Paloma. I had a customer, from both my horse shoeing and later as a blacksmith, who had a plumbing supply. He gave me a lot of knowledge about on demand systems, and I was already pretty good at sweating copper pipe, so I put together my own first simple system. I learned a bit from him about radiant floor on demand systems then when i built my 3000 sqft log house, I designed, built and installed a complete on demand hot water and radiant floor heat. Lol, its the labor that gets you every time. I also had a friend up the hill that had a plumbing business, so I had good sources for anything plumbing related.

As far as monthly bills, there was just no comparison between a conventional boiler system and tankless.

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We'd have tankless here but I didn't plumb the place well enough to make it work so we'd need a couple. The other issue is input water temp, it comes out of the ground here about 38f. 

20 years has seen enough improvements that when our tank heater dies we're going tankless demand hot water.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Finally got ahold of my contact at the CoOp; he's been out. Shoulder issues and his surgeon just left the practice, meaning he has to go through all the hoops with a new one before the surgery can be done.  Anyway he swears that the re-design will be done today or tomorrow and then we can discuss the change in costs and then get it scheduled to be worked.  So the job that was supposed to be done by the 4th of July holiday won't get started till after the 4th of September---If I can afford it.   Anybody want to bet on if I will have power by Thanksgiving?

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On 8/28/2021 at 4:02 PM, anvil said:

My experience says different. Besides space saving, A tank-less system is pretty much all copper tubing whilst a hot water tank is cast steel or iron. Copper doesn't rust out.

Oh there are some definite benefits.   I like it hanging on the wall rather than taking up space next to the furnace and water softener.  It's also really quiet.  I had my doubts about the claim of 93% efficiency, but the exhaust coming out of the system is barely warmer than ambient and exits the house via PVC pipe.   I'm not sorry I did it.  I just really didn't know what I was getting into as far as the extra expense and labor goes.   If I was building a new house I'd probably spec it out with a tankless water heater to begin with.

In the negative column it does take about 15 to 30 seconds longer for hot water to get to the top floor of the house, and of course if the power goes out there is no stored hot water unlike the tank.

However, not having to be concerned with 3 people taking a shower before you using all the hot water is a definite benefit.

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Finally got my call answered!  The estimate that was promised to be done Monday or Tuesday of last week is finally done and will be emailed to me *today*!  Well that is what they "promise". 

I wonder if it is within the cost of the previous one that I prepaid and they have been sitting on the money for months now? 

I wonder if that money has been earning interest in the meantime? 

I wonder what happens if the new one is out of my budget and I ask for my money *back*?

We still have the final payment to our electrician to make; it was supposed to be  paid on the successful completion and inspection of the job.  He did his part months ago and I know he has to file his taxes quarterly and is expecting this payment to help cover that.

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Well the estimate that I was promised by COB last Wednesday has been emailed to me and is dated *today*.  Now I just need them to explain if the new cost is in addition to the old cost or if the new "redesign" supersedes the old one.  I'm hoping the latter as it's just a couple of hundred less and so if it's  in addition then I am seriously out of luck  as that would almost double what they've had since June to do the construction.   Of course I can't get anyone who can answer that at the CoOp.

EDIT:  Contact, it's instead of the previous one.  I'm signing off on it and bringing the signed sheet in in person now!

Edit2: It's instead but the one they sent me is not correct and it will be more than the original; about double---this estimate they subtracted the $3100.49 they had for 3 months and it still comes out at about another $3000!  Now we decide if we pull the plug on it and just eat the $6000 we've already paid the electrician to wire the place.

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We get high winds and bad hail out here I don't know if panels would live long enough for payback.  Wanting to run the Welder, Belt Grinder, Powerhammer and other 2hp systems was always the problem. 

What really ticked me off was them telling me I could finance it. Financing doesn't create money!  I'm getting ready to retire and am trying to LOWER my monthly bills not raise them!  Somehow I don't see them very happy taking say half of my allowance a month  for 5 years---can't pay more as I'd  have an electric bill to pay for as well. I'll have to go back to charcoal as I won't have money for propane.

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Well we knuckled under and will pay the new estimate which is DOUBLE the previous estimates, yes estimates!  My wife said I could borrow against savings and pay it back to ourselves so my forge is going to have to make a profit now!  Ugh.  I hate sales.

They got the money Monday and so we should have the estimate of when they will start in 2 weeks.  Handy thing to know as they will be trenching over 3 driveways we use for access and we will have to park on the alleyway and use the other house door---lucky we have one! 

I've already rolled my "going to Quad-State" change and so am US$57 closer to paying off the electrification----2% as I calculate it.

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