Jump to content
I Forge Iron

Willing Suspension of Disbelief


ThomasPowers

Recommended Posts

I actually talked with S. M. Stirling about blacksmithing in a post apocalyptical setting.  There was a small SF Convention held at the small University in my small town and he was one of the Authors that graced us with his presence.    My contention was that in a recent post apocalypse time period smiths would not be that useful as the good stories posit an extreme die off of people leaving a huge amount of stuff behind---the scrounger would be a more valuable person that a smith.  Save for perhaps one area.  A good smith would be able to fix or rework agricultural equipment using non-powered methods.  (Same thing with spinner's and weavers; it would be decades after a  World Changing Event before any "new" clothing needed to be made and the overhead of making by hand what could be easily scrounged is not a good trade off in a survival situation.)

Mr Stirling countered that they would be valuable for making swords to which I replied that there were thousands of old military swords already out there made by people who knew what they were doing and not some smith who didn't or only though they knew how.   Given the 90% die off there should be plenty of *real* swords available just needing to be found.

So remember: after the apocalypse---loot the museums!

I liked his Island in the Sea of Time series better; especially the very practical method use to remove the bad guy at the end...

I've also been enjoying the 1632 series by Eric Flint (and a host of others as they go along).

The biggest problem I see in most post apocalypse books is the compression of time.  It takes a huge amount of time to do everything by hand even if you know how to do it.  So to keep the stories moving most authors sort of ignore that it might take years to make the stuff they use in the books.

Of course the good books often include the die off of insulin dependent diabetics, (Alas Babylon, Dies the Fire, Lucifer's Hammer, etc) so I know my part in such stories.  (We had a friend who got into it and actually learned how to extract insulin from butchered animals; her plan was to grab me and my smithing stuff and my wife and her spinning stuff and head into the mountains.  I didn't have the heart to explain that the overhead of making insulin was not warranted in a survival situation...)  Now Lucifer's Hammer had the value of books that explain how to do things from a low level; so our bookcases are probably worth much more than even the equipment we have!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I'm about half way through "Sunrise Lands" and am not finding it too onerous to suspend my disbelief. Stirling's character development and the twists in the tale is making little things easy to let go. I'm bummed I didn't discover him years ago. Oh well I'll just force myself to read the whole darned series for the first time. :) 

Other authors, John Ringo for example have made mistakes in basic blacksmithing that left me disappointed. I'd like to ask him if it would be too much trouble to ask a blacksmith or read a book. Then I ran across a glaring mistake in, <shudder> "Glory Road".

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Frosty!  The sainted Robert Heinlein made a mistake!?  Wash your mouth out (or wash your keyboard off).  Heinlein was a major influence on me in my formative years.  Starship Troopers was one of the contributing factors to me ending up as an Infantry Platoon Leader in Viet Nam.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was just discussing with a college age smith how the science fiction I read as a kid is now coming true in real life.

As for RAH, have you read the amusing short story that uses him as a plot point?  Seems that an anti space guy blamed RAH for our space program as his stories encouraged so many people to believe in going and working in space when they were younger.  So he comes up with an idea: RAH went into writing because he had a medical discharge from the Navy for TB; so  if he could cure RAH's  TB with modern antibiotics he would have remained in the navy and not gone into writing.  Getting hold of an experimental time machine he goes back and attacks Rah giving RAH a massive dose of antibiotics while he is onboard a ship and then shifts back to modern times.  He is met on his return by a person telling him that if it wasn't for Admiral Heinlein they would have our bases on the Moon and Mars.  Admiral Heinlein had pushed the space program from his role in the Armed Services...

Most people's beliefs about smithing come from books and movies that seldom portray it correctly; though "The Postman" did use a real smith, Ernie Leimkuhler, in it although they cut most of the scenes involving him, sigh. (HMMMM I wonder if that is why FiF has had such a massive effect on the craft here in America; people seeing that "normal" humans can actually do smithing as many of the contestants are NOT "demigods of earth, air, fire and water"!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thomas:  I have read that story.  The inevitability of history.  Jerry Pournelle?

To add to my previous post I suppose that 50 years ago the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile) was the closest thing we had to Mobile Infantry.  That said, I never equated a UH-1 Huey with a drop ship.  I can still recall most of the words and tune of Roger Young.

"By hammer an hand all arts do stand."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The college age smith I've been sharing my shop with asked me if I had ever read a RAH book and started to describe it to me as he couldn't remember the name; I told him it was "Space Cadets" and quoted that line about ""May Maledictions follow this nameless thing to the uttermost depths of world slime" .

And yes we are both forging wearing masks and not sharing tools. (In general I'm working at a different station too.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe it was a Jerry Pournelle story and that bit went on to say how the Congressman who diverted almost all the funds earmarked for the space program had been blocked by Admiral Heinlein and dubbed the Milkman. Oh heck, that isn't right I need to find the story and read it again. <sigh>

My favorites are: "Starship Troopers, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" and Glory Road."  All of them had an effect on me, some more than others. I think I was one of the only jr. high kids who realized RAH was mocking the whole hippy movement with, "Stranger in a Strange Land."

I should've been more fan-like, he and Virginia lived maybe 20 miles from us.

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He certainly encouraged me to become a blood donor.   I found it interesting that The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" was on the suggested reading list in "Steal this Book" under how to run a revolution...(IIRC).

My smithing friend also asked me if I had read any Tom Swift books; to which my reply was "Tom Swift or Tom Swift Jr?"    I've aged out of those---both Sr and Jr...but I read them!  He sounds a lot like I used to be; except that he's taken up smithing a decade younger than I did and has much better access to good smithing info than I did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I picked up a few Tom Swift and Tom Swift Jr. books a couple years ago and remembered why I stopped reading them. Dad claimed they were the only sci fi worth reading so I read a couple. I used to write short stories spoofing them in typing class. It got me an A- and I could only type 36 wpm. 

The one I remember I wrote where Tom invented the electric battle ship and on it's maiden voyage to Europe it got blown off course and aimed at Greenland. Being on step it couldn't stop or turn quickly enough so the captain had to use the electric cannons as an emergency brake by firing forward. Cut a channel straight through Greenland which was a good thing because the electric battleship couldn't quite stop in time. Of course Tom invented: an electric windshield, better brakes and power steering for it so it wouldn't happen again. 

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tom Swift and his Motor Cycle, pub 1910---Tom Swift and his Magnetic Silencer, pub 1941; 40 books written by three different authors.

Tom Swift (Jr) and his flying Lab, pub 1954---Tom Swift (Jr) and the Galaxy Ghosts pub 1971; 33 books in the newer series by 6 different authors.

Shall we mention the parody  "Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers" Whose main characters are based on Tom Swift (Jr) and his friend Bud...

There were a lot of "series" books written back before television ate up kids' spare hours.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not familiar enough with any of the Tom Swift / jr. books to know about parodies I didn't write myself. Was it any good? 

If it weren't for TV what do you think kids should do, go . . . OUT SIDE!?!:o What if it rains and they get . . . <GASP> W E T?!? 

My Grandmother could've told you about the time when kids didn't have spare time once they could do chores. She used to tell us about she and her sisters making dolls from green grass and they sewed doll clothes. The doll house was drawn in the dirt and had sticks and leaves for walls and furniture.  

On top of that kind of madcap crazy fun, she got chased out of the kitchen and into a bedroom by ball lightning. It followed the phone line that had been installed two days before. The sisters used to sit in the kitchen waiting for it to ring and it almost got them all. It used to be if someone needed a doctor they'd send one of the kids running to THE neighbor with a telephone. 

She thought getting a phone was more important step up than electric lights. 

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...