Mr. Pushups Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Hi, I have recently started forging and am seeking information on a decent hand blower. I am currently using a tire rim for a coal forge and have used many things to blow air. Another idea of mine would be to take a turbo out of some type of car engine and rig it to blow air but i haven't found one yet and would also like to know if anyone has tried this?? I am thankful to all advice. regards Mr. Pushups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Mr. P., The real trick with a hand blower is having enough gear ratio between the hand crank and the blower to get a decent rpm at the blower end. Most of the old blowers had a 40-50 ratio, that is, the fan turned 40-50 times for every turn of the handle. You may have seen the silly hand blowers used on Forged In Fire where the smiths have to turn a short handle madly to get enough air to the fire. Those have an inadequate gear ratio. You might be able to rig up some belt drives to get a turbo spinning fast enough to put out enough air but since they are designed to spin at thousands of rpm I'd be skeptical of it being a successful set up. You'd have to look at design specifications and see how much air a turbocharger will move at X rpm and then figure how much you would get at a slower speed. And it may not be a linear relationship. A turbo designed to spin at 5,000 rpm to put out X cubic feet per minute of air may or may not put out 10% of X when moving at 500 rpm. Good luck and be creative to find what works best for you. Even if something doesn't work it will still give you information. That said, don't put to much time and effort into something supporting a beginner forge. If this craft works out you will want to upgrade to a bigger and better forge soon with a different air supply system. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Welcome aboard Mr. Pushups, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you might have a chance to meet up with members living within visiting distance. George has pretty well covered using a turbo charger for forge blast. I'd be interesting if you winkle out a practical way to do it, I have a dead truck in the bushes with a dead turbo diesel. It'd be cool to have a forge that whistles. If you look at some of the 3rd. world blacksmith videos and photos you'll see lots of darned creative blowers and bellows. Most of the hand crank blowers use bicycle parts. A 26" rim driving a belt to a 2" pully on a shaft to another 26" rim then to the 2" pully on the blower shaft makes an impressive blower. Not a lot of coast to them though. There are ways to pull it off and we'll be happy to help. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Speaking of turbos I have to relate a story of one of the scariest DIY projects I have ever seen. About 10-15 years ago I had to go and check out some issues with a small industrial operation in the rural part of the county. The guys working there had converted a semi truck turbo into a jet engine by installing a spark plug and a propane tank for fuel. They had mounted it on a sort of tricycle chassis made from bicycle parts and wheels. Steering was by handlebars and the operator's seat was a kitchen chair baling wired to the chassis. No brakes that I recall except for the bicycle brake on the front wheel. They said that they had gotten it up to about 40 mph on the blacktop county road outside the plant. The fired it up and it was LOUD! I made sure that I was standing well back in case the turbine decided to pick that moment to fail. It really looked like a serious contender for a Darwin Award and the thought of climbing into that kitchen chair with a improvised jet engine a foot or so behind you and minimal brakes was terrifying. Don't try this at home, kids. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 not knowing which of the 160 countries that call IFI home you are from, its impossible to direct you to a blower for sale. sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pushups Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 Thanks George for your expertise, It is much appreciated. I have bellows but they don't seem to give enough air to get it above a cherry red, and the second reason that i am staying away from bellows is because I am simply doing it by myself and don't have enough hands. So it looks like the turbo is a no go but thanks y'all for your advice. I actually haven't seen forged in fire but rather saw a guys on YouTube who i think is from Denmark. For those who are wondering i am a teenager and live in north-central Idaho, USA. ( sorry for not stating that earlier.) And as some of you might know their is no blacksmith supply in my area so i have limited tools. But, the good side to that is that i am forced to make my own tools. Which is actually quite rewarding. And no i am not able to order tools or such online, but i do have a fairly abundant supply of wrought iron (old). Thanks again for all of your advice Mr. Pushups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 We won't remember your location once leaving this post. Hence the suggestion to edit your profile to show it. Have you looked into the NRBA (Northern Rockies Blacksmith Association)? Check out their website. You never know how many of their or IFI members are near you. Attending meetings is without a doubt the best way to network with others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 An abundant supply of old wrought iron is like having a rainy day fund for a blacksmith. Bring it to meetings and use it for trade stock with other smiths. Great way to get some basic tooling that you might not be ready to fabricate yourself. It also makes a nice gift for someone who takes the time to share their expertise with you and gives you free lessons. A car turbine is not a good source for the impeller assembly you need for a forge blower, as others have stated. The blower from a supercharger might be better, but you are still going to have to gear it way up. Depending on where you are the antiques come up pretty regularly at smithing meetings. I've seen them here on the east coast selling for anywhere between $75 (at an ABANA auction) to $350 (Craig's list/ebay). I think my brother may still have one that was originally for some kind of bomb shelter that he would let go very reasonably. If I recall it looks a lot like this one, but painted yellow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 If you haven't tried it yet try using a pistol type hair dryer as a blower. You will have to use either a rheostat to control the speed of the motor to adjust the amount of air or use a butterfly valve (damper) in the air supply line as a method of adjusting the amount of air to the fire. Hair dryers are a common blower for a beginning smith. Also, thrift stores and farm/ranch auctions are good sources for tools. Ball pien hammers can be made into lots of things. Vice grips work as tongs. Never pass up old files and chisels. If you can afford new tools farm supply stores, e.g. Big R, Tractor Supply, Murdocks, etc., often have farrier tools, hammers, tongs, etc. but tend to be pricey. Sometimes you can get good deals on ebay but watch out for shipping costs. Follow the local Craig's List. The TPAAT (Thomas Powers Anvil Acquisition Technique, which means ask every soul you meet about what you are looking for) works for things besides anvils. If you watch a demonstration on you tube or in person immediately try to duplicate what was shown. Muscle memory lasts much longer than mental memories. Good luck in learning the craft. I've been doing it since 1978 and it is still fun and I am still learning. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 If you have access to electricity and vehicles---what about a heater blower from a vehicle? Might be easier to power an exhaust assist blower from a super efficient house furnace---talk with an HVAC about if they have one on their bone pile. I used to weld billets up using my bellows by myself---once I showed that I could get my forge to welding temp only using my pinkie to pull down on the bellows handle. So if there is a problem with your set up it might be in the design not the method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pushups Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 hi and thanks for the info. Most auctions near me are machinery auctions but i will still keep an eye out. And as for thrift and antique stores in my area, they have basically no tools and their are very few of them but again i always have my eyes open when i have a chance to stop. I do have access to electricity but have found that hair dryers ahve a tendency to get hot and shut off. And secondly I am trying to stick with something non-electical so that i don't have to run extention cords from here to china. thanks for the advice Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I don't go to auctions anymore. They tend to be expensive or wastes of time. I have found more good blacksmithing equipment talking to people after church than online or auctions! (Last find included a 248# PW anvil, 25# LG and 50# LG powerhammers, a helve hammer, 3 forges, 4 postvises, a cone mandrel, 3 post drills 4 blowers--2 hand crank, hammers, swages, tongs,...just from talking to people after church and letting them know I was interested in smithing equipment. I live near a rural smallish town and this was stuff assembled by another fellow that had been sitting in a storage building he had fro 25 years. The 3 powerhammers were located 2 blocks from where I work! I never knew the stuff was here until a friend at church was talking with someone I didn't know about needing storage space and was told that she had space if they could just get rid of all this smithing stuff!) No internet, no auctions, no fancy tricks---just talking to people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pushups Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 Wow Looks like you made a haul. I actually have talked to people and that's how i got the smithing stuff that I do have, and I actually got my coal that way. This older guy was moving and had a bunch of coal he didn't want so he sold it to me for ten bucks and it turned out to be like 5-100 lb. feed sacks which was a big help because nobody around my area sells coal anymore. But most of the people i talk with usually want to keep their smithing tools. And for those of you who may be wondering I have tried several things as blowers: Bellows= Not enough air and are hard to man by ones self Shop vac= to much air and it is rather hard to controlled hair dryer= has been the best so far but when it gets so warm it shuts off Anyhow thanks for the advice and the ideas. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Are you talking to people who are NOT smiths and never will be? My best deals have been from folks that have NOTHING to do with metalworking. A 92 year old lady at church had a lovely anvil in the shed---no use for it and was happy someone could use it. Talking to a young fellow selling greasy car parts got me to a 469# anvil in his uncle's shed. Talking only to folks doing metal work you run into the, nope going to use it myself! folks; but there is a lot of stuff out there; shoot when I bought my house in the inner city there was a forge in the detached collapsing garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pushups Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 Yes, true. Usually the people that you can get smithing supplies from don't really want it or aren't interested in it. So I continue to ask around and eventually I will find something. Anyhow thanks for all the shared stories. Regards Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 For the cheap hair dryer, some of the cheap ones have a momentary push button for cold air. For the one I use on my JABOD forge ($10 at Wally Eorld), I just put a wire tie on the button and had constant cold air flow and no over heating. That will leave you with an extension cord thought... David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Farm and ranch auctions, estate sales/auctions, garage sales, and retirement sales often have hand and power tools. At garage sales these often go early. So, get there early. Check the web sites of local auctioneers for up coming auctions and listings of what is going to be offered. Also, if you go by yourself check to make sure that as a minor you can bid. If not, you may have to drag along a parental unit or anyone else over 18. The auctioneer probably won't care as long as your money is good. Construction and farm equipment auctions held at an auctioneer's sale yard would probably be a waste of time for you. Auctions held at the farm, ranch, or home are more likely to have hand and shop tools. I'm not sure where you are in north central Idaho but I checked the web sites of auctioneers in Lewiston and Coeur d'Alene and saw some things that would be of interest if I were you. Also, check yard/garage sale listings on the web and Facebook Try disassembling the hair dryer and disconnecting or removing the heating element the fan/blower is all you are interested in. The forge fire doesnt care if it is getting heated or ambient temperature air. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Pushups Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 Goods, thanks for the advice but the one I have I think has some type of safety sensor on it that shuts down when it gets too hot. Or the other thing is the motor might be heating up from pushing the air the pipe. But I'll look into it. George thanks for the advice I have been looking at auctions. Both of those cities are too far away for me to reach But I am still looking . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnislug Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 I got a fairly cheap blower from amazon- not sure about adding links so I'll err on the side of caution. There's 2 1/2 inch outlet and 3 inch. I got the 3" and it's. Enough to about blow the coal out of the pot at full blast. Less than $200 if you get a chance to use someone's account I've had this blower for a year and a half, not close to using it full time but it's been reliable. Comes with a rheostat too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 It's ok to give the name of the item! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnislug Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 The item is "SUNLAR 110v 250w US style electric blacksmith blower". Blacksmith supply sells both so definitely get it from the smaller business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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