What did you do in the shop today?

[JHCC]

S235 (that is, Structural steel with a minimum yield strength of 235 N/mm²) has a maximum nickel content of 0.012% and a maximum copper content of 0.55%.

[Jobtiel1]

That doesn't seem like a lot of alloying metals, so I reckon is doesn't make it that much more difficult to forge weld?

And Thomas, you're right, I don't have a lot of spending money for the hobby so cheap steel is the way to go. I also get some tool steels from a seller on a second hand site, I can't be sure the steel is the grade he says it is, but it has worked out great so far for the 1045 and 4140 he sold me.

~Jobtiel

[Dax Hewitt]

Well that was a painful afternoon in the forge. 

I skived off work early to do a bit but first the forge wouldn't light. 

It's a coke forge that I light using wooden kindling. Normally lights first time but every no and again I have a second go. Today you ask? 5 times. 2 with kindling, 1 with a paper nest, 1 with cardboard and finally it took with a third go at kindling but only 1/3rd of the fire pot got hot and even then it wasn't properly hot and took 30 minutes to heat some 1/2 round bar. I cleaned it out, checked the air flow was clear but no it wouldn't play. 

When it finally did light I made a couple of handles for a security barrier at work and the round bar was a bit of coil spring I straightened and attempted to make my first touch mark. Doesn't look too bad for a first go but I didn't get to try it because I ran out of time. 

[Donal Harris]

13 hours ago, Jobtiel1 said:

Frosty, I didn't know 4140 is so difficult to forge weld, thanks for letting me know! I have ordered some mild steel and 1095 steel to use for making an axe. So I can try that the next time. Uni starts again next week so it might be a while before I can actually try it out. If that fails too I can order some 1045 round stock to use for the body.

~Jobtiel

 

You are in Europe. Why not WI for the body instead of modern steel?  As old as Europe is WI should be more available there than here in Oklahoma. WI is much, much easier to forge weld once you accept as fact what more experienced smiths say. Work it at a near welding heat or it is likely going to split. 

[Goods]

2 hours ago, Jobtiel1 said:

 

That doesn't seem like a lot of alloying metals

 

0.55% doesn’t seem like much, but think of the differences in forging 1018 (~0.18%C) vs 1070 (~0.70%C). That’s only 0.52%C difference. Very small percentages of alloys and how their interactions with in the steel can make a very large difference. I have some training from back in my college days, but honestly, I can’t remember near enough to be very useful…

David

[Jobtiel1]

Thanks for your replies,

Concerning wrought iron, I've been on the look out in scrapyards for it, but haven't had luck in finding any, I have about 2 25 cm of 12 or 13mm square stock WI, but that's not enough for an axe. Maybe if I forge weld it together in a block, but I believe that's rather ambitious for me at the moment, since I've only done 2 successful welds, and 2 semi successful. So that's for later, I do plan on using that for an axe for myself.

Academic year starts again on Monday, so I'll be down to 1 day of forging in the week. And maybe some scrapyard and flea market runs on Saturday morning. 

I want to start selling the axes once I have the whole procedure under control, so that's also why I want to start using steels I bought instead of from the scrapyard. 

Concerning the alloys, for example, 15n20 has 2% nickel. So the 0.015% nickel in my steel is I think barely noticeable, and the 0.55% copper also doesn't have that large of an effect, I found some research on a steel called NUCu100, with 1.37% copper that even had improved modern weldability. So I think I'm safe with this composition. I think it has to do with metals being able to better integrate in the metal lattice compared to carbon, a non metal, and thus needing larger differences to have significant effect in the properties.

Again thanks for your replies!

~Jobtiel

 

[Pat Masterson]

Ok I don’t know why I thought JB Weld would hold up to heat but it doesn’t. Starting heating to black with a torch so put a paste wax finish on and New Zealand or whatever this was supposed to be fell off. I almost went back and started tack welding but I know I’ll blow through somewhere and I’m too far to ruin this now. Considering painting it black and then clear coat or just a clear satin exactly how it is….any ideas/suggestions? Real shame because after getting one spoke blackened with the paste wax I can see how good it would have looked if I could do the whole thing like that. 

 

Forgot to put mock up of final assembly. 
 

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Blacken everything then assemble, cold blue, or let it rust and buff.

[Frosty]

Jobtiel: When the manufacturer says a steel is weldable on the spec sheet they are NOT talking about forge welding. They mean electric arc welding of appropriate type.

You should give welding the WI a try just get it sparking hot and it'll stick to itself with little hammering. 

Pat: Ditto Buzz, Color / Patina it THEN epoxy the pieces together.

Frosty The Lucky.

[BillyBones]

Went to the faire at New Boston today. A re-enactment of 1799 Ohio complete with Indians and militia, cannons and muskets. Pretty good time. Anyway at the doctors tent i ran across this i thought may be of interest, the first one i have actually seen in real life, a chastity belt notice the sharks teeth inlays to keep away unwanted visitors.

Just thought it a pretty cool curiosity. 

[Frosty]

Thinking of any new project ideas TW? 

Oh, did you get any other pics at the faire?

Frosty The Lucky.

[BillyBones]

I got 1 of the blacksmiths granddaughter sitting on the wheel of his forge, i do not want to post it though for privacy concerns. Wish i got another of his forge to post. A cavalry wagon type forge with bellows. JA Hoffman i believe was the smith. 

Going to try and take the granddaughters tomorrow (why does that look spelled wrong? must be the hard cider from the faire) so i will get more then.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

3 hours ago, Frosty said:

Thinking of any new project ideas TW? 

Not sure if you were referring to me?

But if you were,

 ive got several new forging project ideas I’m lining up for when this heat finally breaks, but I haven’t fired up in a couple weeks, 

for right now I’ve just been tool hunting, till the weather is more agreeable, ive had a couple of hits this week that hopefully pan out

i think I might have found a couple more post vises and blowers a guy wants out of his garage, I’ll probably go ahead an get everything there because I’ve promised to help a couple people tool up affordably, 

but the deal I’m really waiting on is another guy with a champion rivet forge and a 60# haybudden, he wants to swap for some bench vises ive got.
Haven’t seen them yet but I hope the anvil is usable because I’ve been looking for a lighter one to take mobile 

If you weren’t referring to me then please ignore my prattling lol 

[Frosty]

6 minutes ago, TWISTEDWILLOW said:

Not sure if you were referring to me?

Uh, I addressed you but was thinking of Billy Bones and the chastity belt. 

Nevermind. <sigh>

Frosty The Lucky.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Frosty!  You were thinking of me and a chastity belt!  
 

I think you might have your wires crossed 

[Frosty]

Ya THINK?! 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

I have a little time but the chastity belt sounds like a great project! Lol

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Actually now thinking about it Id bet they would sell pretty good as joke gifts to people planning their friends bachelorette or stag parties! 
 

word of caution though!
Find used shark teeth!
Don’t try and abscond currently operational ones! 

[Daswulf]

Say AHhhhh.

[pnut]

I didn't do anything. My shoulder is finally feeling a little better so I decided to try to get some little jobs done like some grinding with the angle grinder and drilling a few holes with the press. I found to my dismay that the landlord's husband rewired the outlet that was outside and put it on the other side of a locked door. I'm sure I can get the maintenance person to open the door for me but I was upset and thought it would be better to calm down before I asked about it lest I lose my temper. If all else fails I have a hundred foot extension cord and can just plug it in inside my apartment and run it out the side door. Hopefully that's not going to be necessary. 

Pnut

[Pat Masterson]

Thanks Frosty. What about the silver stuff that comeS with a little bernomatic? Do you think that would hold it or would they also fall off when blackening? I’ve never used it for anything. Chances are I’ll have to do what you guys suggested but since they’re already attached I figured I’d ask. Thanks. 

[lary]

Focus the mig welder on the round stock and pull the trigger for a split second on a low setting.  Just enough to where it looks like it's melting on to the sheet metal.

Coil spring that seems to have good spark when I cut it. Couple of scratch awls and a letter opener. 

[Les L]

On 9/4/2021 at 12:38 PM, Pat Masterson said:

.any ideas/suggestions

Pat, what about using a thin diameter wire to rivet the pieces to the frame?

[bluerooster]

Or mabe brass rivets.  I don't know what size material the frame is, but it looks like some 3/32" rivets would work just fine.

   I fired the forge today and learned some things.  I had a cable choker follow me home the other day, and today I decided to see about forge welding it into a solid chunk to be used for something.  I learned that welding old cable is not the easiest task in the world, but can be done.  This cable is 7 strands, each strand is 9 individual wires.  Best I could do was to open it up some, and soak it in laquer thinner for a while. That got the worst of the grease and oil, but the blue whatever it is between the wires didn't budge.  I left it open, and tossed it into the forge to burn off whatever is left.  Got it hot, and twisted it back together, added some borax, and back for a welding heat.  Found that It worked best by welding a few inches at a time, using a swage block, and turning it in the direction of the twist.  Anyway, got it welded up, and looked ok. but a couple cold shuts on the outer strands near one end.  (They were taken care of when I started forging it to shape)  Now, what to make of it?  well, I hadn't made a blade in a while, so mabe I'll make a blade of some sort.  So, I set about doing just that. I usually let the steel tell me what kind of blade it wants to become. I just bang on it as it forms it's self to the shape it wants to be.  Well, after a few heats, I could tell that it wanted to be a short blade of some sort. A few more heats and I could see the shape of a Tanto comming forth. So, that's what it wanted to be, a Tanto, of sorts.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

9 minutes ago, bluerooster said:

I just bang on it as it forms it's self to the shape it wants to be.

When I tell folks that they look at me like I'm joshing them. But it's true a lot of times the steel knows best.