Paul TIKI Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 I keep snapping my leaves off at the stem. I think I'm creating cracks when I try to put a shoulder to separate what is going to be the leaf from the stem. John at black bear forge did a great youtube video on it, that may help. Yours does look nice, by the way looks kind of like a bamboo leaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Masterson Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Thanks for the feedback guys. Billy - awesome that you noticed the edges like that...I actually didn’t realize that would happen when I was putting the first line in but after that first one I thought it looked good so I tried to make sure I got the same look on the rest of them. Oh and Paul TIKI I have seen his video but I’m going to watch it again so thanks for the reminder. I’m obviously no pro but the problem you mentioned I also had. The cause for me turned out to be my anvil edges being too sharp so I was creating cold shuts when I went to isolate the lead. I did dress the anvil edges but isolating over the horn actually works better for me. Now it’s just being able to make more than one kind of shaped leaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 If you can find any real 1018 mild steel it's a lot more forgiving than A-36. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Pat, looks good! Lots of helpful info on the short taper so I'll keep mine brief. When you're making your taper you are angling your hammer back slightly, lets just say it's aimed down toward your foot. For a shorter taper then increase the angle of your hammer so now you're swinging back toward your knee/thigh (depending on the height of your anvil) rather than down toward your foot. Like Glenn said, if you hit back toward the stock, the bar gets shorter. Well in this case your aren't really upsetting the bar. Your hammer is at an angle and the bar is also at an angle so the stock has no where to go back and into that > shape. Like others have mentioned this has to be done at the far side of the anvil. Of course if all else fails and your taper is longer than you want it to be, you can always cut off the tip and play with the angle of your hammer and the stock until it ends up how you want it! No none will be the wiser. Note: the angle of the bar relative to the face of the anvil should be half the angle of yourhammer, that way you get a nice even >. Sorry... That wasn't very brief... Paul, two possibilities I can think of. First, the radius of your anvil where you are making your shoulder is too sharp perhaps? The second is temperature. Whether it got too hot and burned or was worked too cold and started to form cracks I'm not sure, but either might be a contributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Forge a sharp point on the end of the bar, neck down for the stem directly behind the taper for the point, and use your cross peen to widen the leaf without making it longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul TIKI Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Frazer, I chalk my problems up to inexperience mostly. However, since my anvil is improvised the shoulders are pretty rounded so I wasn't getting a clean shoulder. My two most successful leaves were done on that. I then took an angle grinder to square a portion of the edge up and it is probably too sharp, guessing by the comments I'm reading here. I also suspect I have let the metal cool too much between heats. Next time I get out there I'll play with that a little and try to remember to keep the metal hotter. I did have a couple of times I burned the steel accidentally. One time was clearly my fault. the other, I'm blaming the dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Made this chisel. I used wheelbarrow axle to make it. I dont know how good it wil hold edge i quenched and tempered it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul TIKI Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 cool Natkova. How did you do the handle? It was too windy to light a fire, So I redesigned the firepot in the forge and remembered to take pictures I had some helpers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojo Pedro Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 I like you helpers Paul. They look willing if not able. I know the type, short attention span. Looks like a couple of journeymen rushing in to save the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul TIKI Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 McFadden, the big one in the foreground, and his ball have made me burn steel in my forge. You can't give adequate belly rubs and throw a ball while you are heating steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 But they never forget to bring a ball. A rounded transition from leaf blank to stem is no problem, make a more round leaf. Do you have a vise? You can use it like a monkey tool. Before you forge the point on the end, start the stem, don't draw it to finished size, just isolate it and part it long enough to draw the rest. Pre set the vise so the stem blank fits close but not snuggly. Heat the leaf end insert the stem in your vise and drive straight down on the blank to sharpen the leaf/stem transition. Make angle iron slips so the hatch marks in the vise jaws don't mar the stem. Don't hit it hard, you're only sharpening and defining the transition more clearly. Yes it's like heading a rivet and a rivet header works a treat. Hmmm? You don't want to draw the stem to even close to finish diameter or it's likely to break off when you point and forge the leaf. If you have a leg vise you can flatten the leaf section, upset a little and chisel it into sections for a maple leaf. Short from stem to tip but 2x as wide. This isn't THE answer, it's just A way. Leaves are all over the place and more shapes than are known by man. Refine what you're doing now, pick a plant with a similar leaf and BING, all you need do then is make up a story about how long it took you to perfect it. Hmmm? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul TIKI Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 OK Frosty, What is a monkey tool? Honestly I have been all over the place with little projects and ideas and all, each outpacing my skills and knowledge. I really need to dial it back a bit and try focusing. I know it won't all come to me instantaneously. I'm just impatient. Any thoughts on the forge design? Am I missing anything? I'm going to continue to play with corn and charcoal as fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 A monkey tool is used to make a uniform sharp shoulder between a shaft and head, think bolt head. A monkey tool is simply a piece of steel with a hole the same approximate dia. as the shaft of what you're shouldering. Say we're making 5/16" square head bolts and you have 3/8" round stock. Draw the end to about 5/16" and cut it from the bar say 1/2" from the end. A spring die would be handy to make the shaft 5/16" with good precision but that's not this description. How do you shoulder the head? Your monkey tool is simply a block of steel with a 11/32" or 3/8" hole through it. The block and hole have to be longer than the bolt blank or you end up upsetting it in the hole and they become one. Right? So you lay your monkey tool on the anvil, heat the bolt head, drop the shaft in the hole and drive it down into the hole until the "head" is flat on the tool. If we're making a 1/2" bolt I can use the pritchel hole on my anvil. I'm just not going to hit it really hard, the pritchel hole is a potential weak point on anvil tails. A monkey tool can be a top or bottom tool or hand held think REALLY thick walled pipe you drive over a tenon or similar. Do you have or have access to a drill press? There are lots of handy tools you can make with a drill press. They can be forged but a drill press makes lots of them fast and easy. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 10 hours ago, Pat Masterson said: Made a little pen holder for my mother I think it looks just fine and bet your mother will cherish it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnytait Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Some more tongs done today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Paul i used old throwel handle, but iam not satissfied with chisel, edge is too weak, i think it is mild steel that i used, you can work with it but need to resharpen edge every now and then. I don't thing tha quenching is issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 hours ago, natkova said: iam not satissfied with chisel, edge is too weak, i think it is mild steel This is why it's good to test unknown steel before you make it into something. See the section on heat treating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 54 minutes ago, JHCC said: This is why it's good to test unknown steel before you make it into something. See the section on heat treating. I quenched it second time and i took a litle bit more material by filing. I gues edge was too thin or something. I get it now to magnetic temperature saw it won't stick to magnet and quenched. I guess i should did that previously. I don't care for it too much, i reather have chisel that need to be resharpened every now and then, than having wheelbarow axle that is somwhere in corner of boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 It's not the temperature and the quenching that makes a difference; it's whether or not the steel has enough carbon to harden when it's quenched. If you heat it to nonmagnetic and quench it and it's still soft enough to file, it *hasn't* hardened. If you heat it and quench it and the file just slides along the surface without cutting, then it *has* hardened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul TIKI Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Very Nice tongs Johnnytait. That's a skill I need to work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natkova Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Jhc well i had hard time to file it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donal Harris Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Very nice, Johnnytait. What stock do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnytait Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Thank you, most often I use 1" x 1/2" flat bar but sometimes use either 3/4" round or square if I need more material for the jaws. Also sometimes depends on what I have lying around at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 I made a steel tripod for the 1908 anvil I wanted to make it matching ; so I really overbuilt it; and I found this 22mm (almost one inch) plate in the rack; with the excact dimensions I needed. Great. So I start cutting legs to size; mounting them to the plat; filling them with ash and mineral oil; welding on the feet, welding on a T below ... Then I realise I still need two at least 12 mm holes for M12 bolts to hold the anvil down. The drill press destroys 3 or 4 cobalt 6mm drills; and I didn't even got halfway in it. With coolant, slow speed, high speed .. Nope. Looooots of noise; no hole. OK, stubborn as I am; lets break out the carbide tooling. Even that was a no can do; but I did get through with a small diameter. Funny enough, you can file it ... the top layer only as I later found out. So I pick up the fone and call the guy who gave me the plate a couple years back, asking what the hell this thing was. Turns out it's something called Armox; which is an enhanced version of hardox aka military grade armour plate. It's actually layered; the top mm or so doesn't even seem that hard; then it's really hard, the center isn't that hard again, then really hard again before having a softer outer jacket. Sooooo I was stuck. Defeated. I spend half a day trying to make 12mm holes through 22 mm plate and failed. However; since it's under the anvil; and you can't see it anyway; I broke out the plasma cutter. After some cutting from both sides; I now have ugly but functional holes, and all I had to sacrifice is one set of glasses... them sparks always seem to get me. Moral of the story; drill holes in plate before you weld everything to it, or know what kind of plate you're dealing with, and don't go into the shop with your good glasses ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Installed the vertical pieces of a new stock rack. I need to make some better hooks, but here’s the proof-of-concept: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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