Jaegers Forge and Foundry Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Thanks for the suggestions I'll experiment with it tomorrow for now I need to wait for the refractory cement to dry. Also sorry Thomas I was busy and in the future I'll go and look back at old posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 I actually prefer not to have "zero information added" thanks posts; so no problem with that. However posting and not keeping track of replies is a bit lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaegers Forge and Foundry Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Ok, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 When you post there is a check box at the bottom "Notify Me Of Replies" check it and you will get notified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 I broke a commercial handle that was on an 2 pound engineer's hammer the other day. Copied one of Jennifer's hammers and re-handled it and used it for the first time to day. Got two 5/8" sq rods drawn out to 14" for the reins portion of a pair of tongs. Hammer feels great in the hand and swings effortlessly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaegers Forge and Foundry Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 38 minutes ago, Irondragon ForgeClay Works said: When you post there is a check box at the bottom "Notify Me Of Replies" check it and you will get notified. I stopped doing it because it was taking up my email but I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 You can choose the type email you receive. Choose one. An email when new content is posted One email per day with all new content from that day One email per week with all new content from that week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Finished the first batch of RR spike corkscrews. Well.. Finished forging them anyway. Still have to break all the edges on the grinder and give them a thorough wire brushing. Only 34 to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaegers Forge and Foundry Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Ok Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Frazer, How did you split the spikes? Band saw? Cut off wheel? It doesn't appear to me that you used a hot cutter but I could be wrong. You may find, as many of us have, that making a large number of the same thing gets boring after awhile. How much time do you think you have in each one? "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheechWizard Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 my first spring fuller, needs a little grinding on the shank to make it fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I used an angle grinder, so yes a whole bunch of cutoff wheels. That is what I have readily available, but ideally I would have used a band saw. I wanted to preserve the shape of the head both for ergonomic reasons and for visual intrigue, so hot cutting didn't seem like the best path. An angle grinder is far from a precision cutting tool so a couple of them aren't split evenly. One of the first few I did I scrapped entirely as it was just too far off center. I was more careful after that. I made 3 before I started doing the rest in a big batch. The first one took me a little over 2 hours, the second took about an hour and a half and the third took me almost exactly an hour which is where I was hoping to be able to get to. After that I did the rest of them in stages; clean up the faces (most of the spikes were quite old and pitted/bent up) and isolate the material for the corkscrew, split the heads, open up the T, draw out the corkscrew, and twist. (John, if I used the semicolon incorrectly, I apologize). Considering I had never attempted to make a corkscrew before I was given a box of spikes and was asked to give it a go, I'm still enjoying the process. I like the repetition and feeling like I'm refining the process as I go. However, I'm only 32% of the way there. So by the last one I may be spiraling into madness, so to speak. Luckily the store owner doesn't mind getting them in batches and there were several wrought iron spikes in the box that I'm using for other things. I decided wrought wasn't going to be ideal for drawing out that thin. So that breaks up the monotony a bit. Especially because I love forging WI, it's like forging butter. But I digress. Even if it does become a tedious job, it still accomplishes a few things. First, it's by far the biggest "order" I have received and the funds would be great for reinvesting back into the shop. Second, it establishes a good working relationship with the business owner who I only met recently while trying to find people willing to sell the things I'm making. And third, I'm still in the shop working at the anvil. Which is always time well spent IMHO. So even if I have to power through the tedium a bit to finish them all, I think it'll be worth it. Pardon my rambling response to two simple questions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Frazer, I have found that it can be a meditative nature when forging many items and the learning curve will make you a much better smith especially when I strive for exact copies of each. One of the most amazing things in smithing is the fact that ever action has a response that is a guess.. A hard hammer blow vs light, hot metal vs cooler, mental ability at the moment the hammer swings, etc, etc. So ever aspect is an immediate adjustment based on what just took place with that 1 hammer blow. The highest form of forging is "To MAKE the SAME".. So, good clean work will make a smith all the better when applied on doing production. This aspect made me look at efficiency and how to maximize the amount of work for a given time frame to get those exact copies.. A thin hot cut chisel would allow for the RR spike to be cut down the middle cleanly in a vise if using old methods. But if looking at overall time savings for production a bandsaw would be key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I agree. I will certainly say that just in doing these first ones I have gotten a lot faster drawing things out thin and round. My 1.5lb thrift store ball-pein hammer got a lot more use than it normally does over the last few days. Doing the last ones together one stage at a time helped me keep them somewhat similar since I could compare them along the way. However, I'm not going to claim that they are all the same. Granted there were a few different styles and size spikes to begin with, but that's not a reason why all the forged features aren't the same, that's all from me. In fact, the very first one I made I twisted the helix backwards. I didn't even think about which direction to wrap until I went to screw it into a cork and realized it was left handed! Anyway, perhaps by the last 10 or so they will be closer. (if you aren't interested in RR spikes, feel free to skip the rest) As an aside regarding the different sizes/styles of spikes I was given, just because I found it interesting, there was an obvious timeline that I observed when comparing them all. George N. M. gave me some very helpful information before I picked them up on how to identify the potential WI spikes by their smaller size. These smaller ones also had a different isolation between the head and the shank, where the transition was hammered over a bottom fuller and obviously by someone who was making these all day. The isolation was rarely square to the shank, the depths were all over the place, clearly someone putting the spike on the form, hitting it once and moving on to the next. Most of the spikes that were made like that were WI, but a few of them were steel. A very easy to work, low carbon steel, but undoubtedly steel. Then there were smaller spikes but with what I would consider a modern style head. I'm not sure how modern spikes are made, they are probably drop forged or something along those lines, but underneath the head there is that flat step where the spike interfaces with the rail. These ones were also steel, but they were softer than the ones I usually find laying around on tracks near me that are still in use. Then there were longer ones with the modern heads. None of them had any markings on the head. I'm not sure when this rail was built and when it was decommissioned, but even in that box of 25 or so he gave me it was kind of interesting to me to see how the spikes changed over time. He salvaged several hundred of them (with permission) when they were tearing the track apart to make a walking trail. There were also two spikes that had sheared in half, I'll give you one guess what material they were made from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 When they started to use powered spike drivers they had to up the carbon content a bit on spikes so they would just bend over in driving. That is when the "HC" spikes came around. Could any of the WI "features" be due to wear in decades of use? I've seen some with definite irregular wear patterns. We get mining rail spikes out here from time to time---smaller than my pinky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 They are certainly WI, spark test, break test, and forging them all make me comfortable to say that with absolute confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Not that they might not have been WI; but that some of the oddities in their shape might have been wear induced. Having a rounded gullet can be commonly found in well worn modern spikes too; so it might be an artifact of their having been used rather than their original creation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Oh, I apologize, I misread what you wrote. You may be right, perhaps what I saw as an impression from a bottom tool is actually from the track or some other wear pattern, but that isolation is recessed behind the face of the shank in such a way that it would be hard to make that impression while driving the spike into place. It's very likely I'm not describing that well, but if you're interested I can send a few pictures later when I'm back in the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 The wear isn't from driving in the spike, but from the track moving around the spike and from the base of the track vibrating against the shank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Thanks John; what he said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Definite possibility and more likely than them being made/finished by hand. I'll share a picture when I can so we are looking at the same thing, but you're probably right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I could see spikes being made from square bar stock with the heads upset and the points drawn out by hand, but more likely that that would be done with mechanical hammers of some sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Post ACW I'd say it was almost a given that a lot of factory work was mechanized. BTW when I visited the town Museum in Manassas VA a couple of decades ago they had a display of examples of railroad rail profiles experimented with before the shape we are accustomed to now. There were some quite unusual ones tried! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 The first commercial railway in the US had granite ties spaced eight feet apart. The original rails were wood with an iron cap; these were later replaced with granite rails capped in iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I recently got a copy of Joshua Kavetts wonderful book about Eagle anvils and the Fisher & Norris company.. they also made connection plates for track and there are several examples in the book.. Great read if one is interested in both history, anvils and such. Was super excited to get the book and now have given it a cover to cover several times. Still thirsting for more.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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