HammerHeart Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Alright I will probably toss it aside and just use it as a dust collector : ) i seem to have alot of that today. I would rather play it safe, I use to be careless and not worry about anything. Ever since my two boys have been in this world I try to be a safe as possible. I cant raise them if I'm not here! So I think I'll stay thanks everybody for the advice. And to the guy that forges them all the time, good luck buddy I hope everything stays ok. Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said: Zinc on the other hand I have worried about and have had Zinc fever in my early 20's.. the antidote beleive it or not is good ol fashioned Milk.. Milk is not a cure and shame on your for spreading such garbage. I am calling you out, PROVE IT,. Milk is no substitute for Chelation. You will get someone killed if they believe that nonsense rather than get real treatment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I never said it was a cure.. Just that i read it was the antidote. (apparently I left at the whole other sentence that was in my mind).. I should have prefixed this with I don't believe it.. You guys can't see what is in my mind as I right as you can only see what is on the page.. Does it work.. I don't know.. I can't recommend anything of the like to anyone.. Steve if you would like more information on it.. You'll have to look it up yourself.. There are 100's of pages on it.. Does it work.. I don't know.. You are a smart cookie, and maybe you could get to the bottom of it. For all those that think I am promoting going out and breathing in a bunch of zinc fumes and drinking milk.. I am NOT.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Antidote means cure, and there are many pages disputing the garbage of milk curing anything except calcium deficiency or thirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtG Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Milk can cut the headache and dizziness back, but it won't remove the zinc compounds. Antidote for the most obvious symptoms? For many, yes. But as both Steve and JLP stated, it is no cure for the problem. If anything it might make someone think they are good to go again. Dangerous loop to get in. I've known people knocked out for days on end making mistakes like that. Welding on hot dip is no joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 It is no joke.. When I was doing this brazing gig.. I did not even know what Zinc fever was.. I knew for sure it was stinky stuff but did not know the dangers.. I had and exhaust fan that would have cleared all the smoke out.. didn't even turn it on.. I was given a hole ridden parts washer and wanted to fix it but brazing the holes shut.. The whole combination was just bad. Wasn't till a few days later I went and looked it up on the net and that is where the mention of milk came in.. That was a long time ago when windows was still 3.1.. LOL.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 HH, I have a set of steel shelves full of various pieces of steel that I use just to bend or hammer hot steel on. Typical forging of hot steel on cold things like that for use as a fuller should not cause problems. Just like using sockets for an adjustable size bending jigs. Now galvanized and painted metal doesn't go on my shelves as the temps involved can cause problem with zinc plating or lead paint---which was used a LOT on steel back when. (Like the green paint on little giant powerhammers!). I don't allow it in my scrap pile. Digging into the milk vs Zn debate I notice that it is a commonly held belief amongst weldors; yet all the medical studies I have found don't support it. (the United Kingdom Health and Safety Executive challenges this advice, warning, "Don’t believe the stories about drinking milk before welding. It does not prevent you getting metal fume fever. ") One important aspect mentioned is that breathing of fumes damages the lungs and that Zn uptake through the lungs is not mitigated by Ca consumption in the digestive track. Now when there is a disagreement in viewpoints; I vote for the one most likely to be safer while we wait for the smoke to dissipate... I've been smithing as my primary hobby for 39 years now and have not had MFF; but I had a 19 year old student I was teaching at Pennsic one year that I specifically warned about it. Next time I saw him at Pennsic he told me he had done some galvanized metal welding outside with a breeze and still managed to spend a week in the hospital with no health insurance...unfortunately we only believe we are immortal when we are young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolFisHunt Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I finished a set of hammer tongs. I didn't start with a plan, probably used too small stock and they didn't come out quit symmetrical, but I think they'll work. I also finished a coal scoop. Working out what order to do the bends in the sheet stock had me scratching my head a bit. The knife I'm working on got quenched also. The oil in my deep fried needed to be changed, so I warmed it up to 175 in the frier. Worked like a charm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, GolFisHunt said: The knife I'm working on got quenched also. The oil in my deep fried needed to be changed, so I warmed it up to 175 in the frier. Worked like a charm. Ah, just a little confused here.. What metal are you hardening at in a fryer warmed to 175?? LOL.. You heated the knife up in the fryer to 175F to harden it?? please say it ain't so.. Just kidding as I just completely left out a sentence on a previous response but just to clarify.. :: You do mean you brought the knife up to Transformation temperature in the forge, heat treatment oven, etc, etc and then quenched the blade in the the pre heated fryer oil of 175F.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I like the tongs and need to make some myself. As long as they work, the looks really don’t matter! What steel did you use? I’m used to seeing the make out of spring steel and seeing the 90degree bend drawn/flattened out to the outside of the bend to make the corner stronger. Let us know how well they work! david Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Love the shovel.. Not to heavy?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 SHOW ME THE REFERENCES This is where I request references that milk will help cure zinc or heavy metal poisoning. No some opinion posted but actual medical references. Zinc, galvanized, and coatings has 635 topics on zinc, galvanized and metal coatings. I will post from that section on the site the following Zinc Questions, read this first. Zinc is not be dismissed. I know knew one blacksmith that sent his helpers out of the shop. You could park 2 semi trucks side be side in his shop. There were NO DOORS on either end of the shop so there should have been plenty of air flow. He burned the zing coating from some short sections of pipe in his gas forge. He was ill the next day, went to the hospital, and died in only a matter of a few weeks. Please SHOW ME THE REFERENCES to where milk is an antidote or even helps with heavy metal poisoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 David, go check out the Hofi tongs.. the hammer tong by Brian were designed on the Hofi design IIRC.. The outside corner is tapered just like on a chain hook or drive pintel so there is extra length to increase resistance to flex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Zinc and milk. Milk does indeed work for zinc poisoning, NOT inhalation of the fumes. It works by lining the stomach to prevent more zinc from entering the blood stream. So if you swallow zinc then yes drink milk, it does help, helps does not cure, then seek medical attention. If it is fumes from burning the zinc just get yourself to the doctor and fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolFisHunt Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 No, the 5160 blade was heated to just beyond nonmagnetic in the forge. The oil in the frier was frozen, I heated the oil to liquify it. I thought the oil should be preheated a bit, 175 was the lowest setting on the frier. Maybe this was not proper. Tempered the blade in my kitchen oven at 325 for a couple of hours. The shovel doesn't seem too heavy, I used 3/8" stock for a comfortably sized grip. Certainly stronger than necessary. If I don't know what I'm doing, I'm not bound by convention...or ignorance is bliss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Well, I'm slower than molasses in the middle of a Siberian Winter, but I got my wooden casting box filled with 1/8" straws to make my FARB today. Man, those little things are close together. I'm intimidated to even try and mix up this gravelly stuff to try and push it in-between them to make the castable part. I'm "dead in the water" on another project and we got a layer of snow today so there's not much to do around the place. I guess I'll be mixing and "poking" after dinner this evening. I want to get this forge up and running so I no longer have to go "borrow" a forge to make my knives...........................and, besides, I REALLY need to just start heating metal and practicing hammer control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtG Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 There seems to be some confusion. Let me be plain- for some people who develop a body toxicity of zinc and other compounds resulting from inhalation of fumes developed by heating or welding on galvanized steel, the headache and dizziness MAY be alleviated by consuming cows milk. This IN NO WAY aids, helps, or otherwise solves the problem of body toxicity of metallic compounds. It. Does. Not. Remove. The. Problem. It. Does. Not. Solve. The. Problem. You can die. Others around you can die. If you drink milk after inhaling the fumes, you may feel better and then make the mistake of not seeking help, or worse yet, go back into the fumes. In case somehow, someone is still confused.... Just because milk might make you FEEL better if you have fume fever, it WILL NOT make you better. Period. I am not saying it will. JLP is not saying it will. Billy is not saying it will. I understand the veterans here are concerned about it being misconstrued, and are looking out for the health and wellbeing of others. May I add a point? If you go to grind off galv, please still protect yourself. It can still be vaporized, as the melting point is somewhat low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Chris, I'm happy you're getting closer dude! You'll be banging out knives left and right before you know it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage11 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 "Welding galvanized metal" I and many others in my trade mig weld galvanized metal all the time. Its part of being a sheet metal worker. We try our best to ventilate the working area such as opening a bay door or utilizing a fan for fresh air. Workers have gotten sick from it. Will experience the shakes, nausea, and maybe a headache. Most of the time a glass of milk will cure it. Welding galvanized metal is a common practice more so than what peoole would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtG Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Savage, I can appreciate that it is part of your job. Sometimes we have to do dangerous things because... well, it has to be done to get the customer going. I won't even mention the risks I've put myself in to try and get someone up and running. Hospitals need their gen-sets, landfills need their compactors, powerplants needed their dozers, etc etc etc.... The reality is that for the average Joe, it is waaaaay too risky to just jump into welding/heating etc galvanized. Can proper precautions be taken? Yes. Blowing a fan at the work and worker is not a proper precaution. Just saying. I know, I know, "We've been doing it for years this way, why change now you Safety Sally??" One of these days one of those "sick" guys will be a "dead" guy. I'm sorry to be blunt, but it's reality. Different bodies react to toxins differently. Pre-existing conditions, like, say, COPD, can and will exacerbate the issue. Just like scrubbing the wash bay floor with solvent to break up the grime will be fine most of the time, all it takes is that one time for the Hotsy to ignite the fumes. I will never ever forget watching Aaron go up in flames and having to save him, then watching his skin bubble and.... nevermind... just please, don't put yourself in a situation where your loved ones, friends, and possibly coworkers have to suffer. Err on the side of caution. If you are not a trained and equipped professional, then just leave galvanized hot-work well enough alone. And like I said. Alleviating the symptoms doesn't fix the problem. Please exercise caution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Zinc oxide poisoning is cumulative. It will build up in your tissue. Chelation is the only way to get it out in a timely manner. We will all be old one day and I don't need one more preventable health problem to regret. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage11 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 CTG, I agree with you 100%. Although welding galvanized metal in the sheet metal industry is a common practice, it shouldn't be done without all the latest safety equipment, but that isnt the real world. I see a lot of young adults who want to become welders and fabricators, but they dont have a clue what they are putting their bodies through. There is a reason why our life expectancy is 6.5 years after retirement on average. It is what it is I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I have a friend in the uswa and I asked him about this very thing. He told me that they TRY to minimize the risks but sometimes best practices are not followed for whatever reason. He said it happens more often than he would like to admit. I have no reason to not take every precaution I can because I have no deadlines etc. I simply avoid plated steel. It's easy enough to get unplated steels to go through the trouble of having to use an acid soak. I always err on the side of caution. I've done enough stupid things to shorten my life so there's no need to add another. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerHeart Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Thomas I know this is down the thread a way but I actually used the second piece In my vise as a fuller to get the peen on the hammer. But after I heard all the news I figured it wouldn't be safe so I was gonna toss it on the shelves, but if it's safe to use I definitely will. And as far as zinc and coated steels I'm going to do more research so I don't make a mistake I'll regret in the future. Thanks for the help everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 You can definitely find something to do with those pins. I just wouldn't throw em in the forge. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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