What did you do in the shop today?

[Jimmyiorn]

A few things from the past week or so

[Goods]

I made several items at the forge this weekend. (I did two long days of demos for a local festival.) This is what I’m most proud of. Inspired by JLP, a faced wrought iron hammer.

Still needs cleans up, touch marked, hardened and of course etched. It began life as a 3/4” sq by 15” spike from an old damn (which salvaged years ago when the damn was removed and later gifted to me.) Had to fold and forge weld it 3 times to gain its current thickness, then steeled the face and peen with salvaged spring mat’l. (Picture is a little miss leading, it’s about 2lbs...)

Thanks for the inspiration Jennifer!

[GrumpyBiker]

What I did in the shop today is learn that my respirator interferes with the foam of my safety glasses getting a good seal and let in some glass bead I was media blasting with outside the cabinet !! 

So I picked up some new goggles .

crushed glass in the eye is a good motivator to not make that mistake again !

[Chris C]

Ouch!   Glass beads are nothing to trifle with when it comes to your eyes.  That picture is painful to look at.

I have a similar problem, but it's with the glasses themselves.  I sweat so profusely that I can't wear the foam-rimmed goggles and still see.  It's like opening my eyes under salt water, so I'm seldom completely protected with much more than my prescription glasses.  If money were no issue, I'd have a positive pressure helmet for all grinding/bead blasting projects.

[Frosty]

Ow, that's gotta smart! We keep harping on PPE so folk won't have to learn from their mistakes. Have you seen a doctor? How long did you flush your eyes? If it got past on one eye there's almost certainly glass dust in your eyebrows just waiting to fall into your other eye. Sharp glass can stick in hairs like little barbs and shakes loose later. 

I have a similar problem with wood dust, even wearing my bug eye goggles over my trifocals my eyes itch and sometimes burn for hours. I don't take the bug eyes off until I've washed my face or if I'm really dusted I'll hit the shower first. 

I used to sand blast steel tanks prior to coating for ground burial or painting. I don't think the company still does it outdoors, the neighbors aren't wearing the space suit outfit we wore while blasting. I do NOT miss that job.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Glenn II]

Had the privilege to spend time with my family at the Western Minnesota Steam Threshers Reunion. It is a living history annual event on Labor Day wknd near us. Spent some time on a 20-60 Russell steam traction engine.

Got to see a Case 150 steam traction engine re-creation (only original part is the serial number plate.) Rear wheels are 8 feet diameter and weight 6,250lbs each.

Of course did some forging with my kids. Spent some time with Roger Denigrin (spelling?) He is quite the character, loves to share his knowledge and challenge children to pick up his "444 Peter Wrong" anvil and swage block!

[Chris C]

WHAT?????   What do those things weigh?

[Frosty]

Oh about 15-20 lbs. If I recall.

Roger Degner has a lot of fun with the Peter Wrong.

Ear wax can be hard to get at you know.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Chris C]

Bet he has fun with that.  Looks real enough to fool me.w

 

Chris

[JHCC]

[Glenn II]

It is made from sheet metal, welded edges. Add some rust, some well placed chisel marks, and a few missed hammer blows to the face... I remember the first time my daughter asked to pick it up. "Yep. Go ahead, try to pick it up. Haha." You could about imagine my disbelief when she did!

JHCC, have you met Roger? Bigger guy, longish gray hair, long gray (sometimes blue or pink) beard?

[Chris C]

That's really unique.  Bet he has a ton of fun with it.

 

Chris

[Dax Hewitt]

On 9/3/2019 at 6:30 PM, BIGGUNDOCTOR said:

I would think the blower itself could be saved. Would make an interesting forge blower.

It's a wee bit big for a forge blower at 7.5hp. 

It's shot, the fire melted the motor windings so by the time I got a new motor and new gears because who knows how the hardness has been affected by the heat I might as well scrap it. I have shelves full of them ranging from 1/4 hp up to 200hp 

On 9/3/2019 at 7:56 PM, Frosty said:

Dax: That's a "Root's" blower and has to be clean internally or they tend to seize up. Not being a "transparent" pump aor or water can't pass through it unless it's turning and if something stops the output it WILL stop the blower/pump. If it's a gas it just builds pressure till it over powers the motor if it's a liquid things tend to break. Burning up your belts is as good a result from a seized Root's as I now of.

 

It is indeed a roots type blower made by Hick Hargreaves in this case. It didn't sieze up until after it set on fire. There are no drag marks or contact points internally, the rust is from the fire hose and being left outside on site for 3 weeks before my customer let me at it. 

Basically I overhauled it but unfortunately my customer installed it. They didn't tension the belts properly so after 9 hours running the belts set on fire because they were slipping. 

Zero friction marks inside the blower and the motor was protected by a correctly set overload and thermistors in the motor too, if the blower has started to sieze the extra current would have tripped it out. 

One of the senior engineers from the customer came to my shop today to do an internal investigation and he agrees with my findings that it was bad belt fitting. 

The fire was bigger than it should have been because it was in a sound proof box that had 20 years of rubber belt dust in it and 20 years build up of oil vapour from the gearbox breather. 

It's not worth overhauling, with the heat it's been under the gears will be shot and the body is a bit warped too. Time for the scrap bin after I have harvested a few bits for forging with. 

Mr Grumpy that eye looks nasty. Hope it clear up soon. 

[JHCC]

4 hours ago, GrumpyBiker said:

crushed glass in the eye is a good motivator to not make that mistake again !

Ooh, I’d be grumpy too. 

[hawk18]

It’s not what I did IN the shop. It’s what I did TO the shop. I moved my tools from the front driveway to a spot in the back yard. Now I don’t have to move my truck and trailer to be able to drag my tools out for use. Then, put everything back. 

Hawk

 

[jlpservicesinc]

Nice work.  Will you put up a shade/rain limiter something or other? 

[Jon Kerr]

I made my first square punch last night. The steel is EN19 which I believe is close to 4140. Nothing special but anyone else's standards but its progress for me.

It turned out well, although its not perfectly square so I'll have to cheat with a grinder to finish it off. I took advice from one of JPL's comments somewhere here and went for 9" in length.

I heat treated using a residual heat method.

Do people sometimes use a punch as a drift in the same tool?  I need to punch some square holes but slightly larger than this first punch I've made, and I don't have a square drift yet.

[jlpservicesinc]

So heat treatment is the series of events including  annealing,  normalizing hardening and tempering. 

 

Bringing the metal to transformation temperature and cooling quickly is specifically hardening. 

Bringing the metal back up to a specific temperature after hardening is called tempering.

 

You can use a punch drift combo but it's not done often because you will lose hardness in the punch while drifting.

[Jon Kerr]

Sorry, I should have been more specific in my terminology. This was hardened by bri ging up to critical heat and quenching in water (which is allowable for EN19 according to my research). I quenched only the last couple of inches on the working end, then polished quickly with a grinder and allowed the residual heat to temper the tip to straw colour.

Hopefully this is a reasonable approach- its how I was taught during a lesson at Much Hadham forge.

(Sorry JLP, I also typo'd your initials in my previous post!)

[JHCC]

This is sometimes called "self-tempering", and it's worth repeating the process until the colors stop running. Otherwise, there may be enough retained heat to harden the shank of the tool. If you quench the working end, take out, repolish, allow the color to run, quench the working end, take out, polish, etc, you'll be sure that the shank has cooled enough that you won't be creating a potential break point in it.

 

[Jon Kerr]

I see. Thanks JHCC. I'll remember that next time.

Given that I didnt do that this time- am I best to throw this in the kitchen oven for a couple of hours at the tempering temp to be safe? Or should I start the heat treat again and do as you say?

[JHCC]

Oven would probably be a good safety measure. Certainly can't hurt.

The main thing is that you want to make absolutely sure that there's no visible glow on the unquenched portion. If you have any part of your shop in deep shadow, that's the best place to check, as bright lights can make workpiece incandescence less visible.

[jlpservicesinc]

On 9/3/2019 at 6:50 PM, Goods said:

 made several items at the forge this weekend

My pleasure. Glad I could inspire. Looks like it might have been over heated in the face a little on one of the welds top corner. Might be a blem in the photo but it looks like a hairline crack.  I love the overall shape. Swedishish.. 

did you do the barbs and everything?  Yup, nice work indeed. 

On my newer hammer which had to go through so many weld cycles I think the face might have came loose a little.  I have a few more heats to go before finished. 

[Goods]

Yes, I did cook the spring steal a bit... I got to get more experience working with different steals. Had a hard time getting the wrought up to a good temperature without over heating the face.  The weld didn’t blend real well as a result.

I did use the bards for the face. Had a heck of a time with that too. Again, more experience needed. I cut one completely off as I was chiseling it, and had them bend over a couple times setting the face. Steeled the peen like it was an axe, that went more smoothly. 

Hopefully it will survive the heat treat!

I plan on working through this several times to get the process down. I am required to do a demo at the IBA annual conference and, to me at least, this seems like it would be of interest to smiths with more experience. 

Thanks again!

David

[jlpservicesinc]

On 9/5/2019 at 11:44 AM, Jon Kerr said:

I see. Thanks JHCC. I'll remember that next time.

Given that I didnt do that this time- am I best to throw this in the kitchen oven for a couple of hours at the tempering temp to be safe? Or should I start the heat treat again and do as you say?

I call this one heat process heat treat.  really 2 steps but never reheat the tool so 1 heat. 

Ideally if you have done your homework and the steel you are using is heated to transformation temp  and it is cooled sufficiently fast enough to harden (tested with a file) and then polished with a stone, grinder, etc, (while the still heated shank) to be able to see the tempering colors running up the tool,  then it can be done well and the tool will last for years.  (keep in mind the length of the hardened steel to short and it will crack in use at the hardening line). 

Where this can fall apart is if the shank of the tool was quenched while still at transformation temperature and the whole tools is hard but the last few inches which at, then tempered and the shank is left hard. 

4140 retains some hardness even when not hardened and is at forged hardness. 

If you feel uncertain about the process steps you took then for sure an oven tempering session would be in order.  

Goods: (David), that is so awesome.  Well done..  Its not a complicated process but it is a skillful one. Well, done indeed.

Coal forge or gas forge?    In a coal forge to get the face up to welding temperature push the steel to the farthest side of the fire and let the heat soak into it from the wrought iron. 

Just as the wrought iron is coming up to temperature, pull the steel back into the fire some just to get a little more heat on it.  At this point, the wrought iron should be near perfect and as you draw the hammer out to forge weld it, you will see the steel is now the correct temperature and it will be almost automatic in the weld. 

Its pretty amazing. almost like there are magnets between them.