What did you do in the shop today?

[Marc1]

22 hours ago, Helena said:

I'm still working on the forced air ribbon burner... But I've got the plumbing worked out. Please ignore the craptastic nature of it, I'm working with mostly junk found laying around.

Wow !  Now I know who to ask to build me a flame thrower

[billyO]

Sweet bird, Das!

[Gazz]

I have to comment on the post about Albert Paley.  He did not get his start from going around picking up scrap metal on the roadside - he was a very accomplished jeweler and made fantastic gold and silver pieces and started blacksmithing to make tools to help him in those efforts.  I studied gold and silver smithing with him when he taught at Brockport SUNY and worked in his blacksmith shop for 4 years.  He was not a guy to pass up a good curb find but his steel stock mostly came from a local steel supplier/scrap yard.

[Hans Richter]

At Mark – now you mention it I remember I have seen this great device in one of the great Mad Max –movies in the past 

Hi Helena, welcome to this great community, I hope you will gather lots of inspiration, tips and knowledge from many of the members here. Please be carefully with gas equipment and all the stuff eventually can harm you, and read the safety section and search for items that’s interest you.

BTW -all starving artists are always welcome to my home/studio for a hammer in, BBQ (to fill an empty billy) and have a roof/shelter above their heads.

Below some examples of scrap sculpture I made and expose in the 90’ to kick against the establishment. A windy (look trough) business men with a cell phone as a hard, and our lord how try to give you a hand.

Cheers, Hans

[Latticino]

On 11/8/2018 at 6:47 AM, Helena said:

But I've got the plumbing worked out

Needle valve not specifically required if you have a functioning variable regulator, but it shouldn't hurt.  If you find you don't get the downstream pressure you want I would remove it.  The thing I would really be concerned with is your transition between the gas piping and the mixing chamber.  The welding there looks a bit questionable, and there is no real need for a diffuser section (in my experience).  Most folks just pipe a 1/4"  or 1/8" line directly into the center of the main mixing chamber (though at times I've seen elbows at the end of the gas line used - if elected I would pipe same against the direction of flow for the air to get better mixing).

Bottom line is that you need to made sure that connection is gas tight, as it will not only be under pressure and mixed with air, but in some proximity to your hot forge.  That can be a recipe for disaster.  At bare minimum I urge you to do a soap bubble test before any extensive use.

[Helena]

Hi Hans!

If I'm ever in your area I'd love to stop by! Thank you to everyone here, you've all been very welcoming. I finally decided to join the forum after 2 years of having all my questions answered from IF I by just googling stuff. That's how I've learned everything so far.

 

And hi Latticino! Good info for sure. A couple points that the picture doesn't show. It's a quarter turn ball valve after the regulator as a quick shut off option if something goes crazy. The little piece of sheet steel is just welded there as a support bracket. The pipe goes all the way into the black iron and is capped off. There is a small hole drilled in the quarter inch pipe facing the correct direction. And yes, I plan on putting a rubber seal around the entrance hole to make sure there's no Venturi intake effect happening. The mix will end up happening through the two elbows of 2" black iron, an internal piece of double twisted sheet steel in a 16" piece, and of course a little extra mix will happen in the ribbon burner as I've added a baffle to the inside of that. Just waiting on the refractory cement to cure at this point. 

[Daswulf]

Thanks billy.  

Hans, I like the large size sculptures. You should do more some time. 

[Hans Richter]

My dear Aric, thanks for the feedback, at this moment I try to gather enough scrap at least to make some (series of) little sculptures, and I’m deeeeeeeeeeeeeeep jealous about your sources and creativity. Till then Lisa & I play further in the (casting) sandbox and fondle with clay (big hug to your daughter). We will fire them in to biscuit and (Raku)glace/fire them but also for use as a pattern for bronze and brass casting (fossils)  

Helena, I really mean it, -keep going and don’t hesitate to ask the grumpy old guys (on IFI called curmudgeons) or us ‘normal people’  for support if you need

[Daswulf]

Hans, thanks. I'm a bit jealous of your casting capabilities as well but I have no time to add yet another area of hobby to my list. I love the types of things you are casting. Can't wait to see them done. 

I use many sources to get scrap and some ways are Very time consuming and labor intensive but those are the ones that usually pay off the best. Some are just a perk of my day job. I have been hoarding scrap, old tools and things for many years. Finally in the past few years it has been paying off.  

[Frosty]

Welcome to the active branches Helena, glad you delurked. 

Nicely over built gun burner you've over designed there. You are Sooooo going to fit right in here. 

When I first started making a gas forge I didn't k now doodly about NA so was experimenting with gun burners. My first was just a straight pipe into the forge with the gas jet right after the blower. It made a funky flame, a little reading to learn propane and air don't mix without encouragement so I put two elbows and a swirl strip in the next one. It worked nicely but a HVAC guy told me one elbow with a long straight nipple downwind before the forge was all I needed. Next burner proved his point, it worked just as well as MR. swirly.

I used a T for the elbow in my 3rd. gun, it was what I had on hand and it worked better than the two earlier ones, made lots more turbulence. I introduced the gas into the blower fan on my last gun and it was perfect. However I wasn't thinking or I wouldn't introduce a flammable gas that close to an unsealed electric motor, being serious fire hazard.

No need to cap and drill gas jets in the propane pipe, just open ended small dia. works fine. You'll need less pressure with the larger orifice so you have to be careful not to have too much blower pressure in the mixing tube. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Helena]

Hi Frosty!

Thanks for the awesome reply! Yeah, I guess my version is similar to your Mr. Swirly. Lol

I hadn't thought about using a T with a cap on one side to make an "extra turbulent" elbow, that's pretty clever!

And thank you for all the info you've posted over the years. Your post on NA ribbon burners led me to realize I needed Kast-O-Lite 30 for the thing. 

This is my 3rd forge so far... It's been a grueling learning process, but I do enjoy it. The other 2 used a NA Venturi type burner. It was small, but I could get welding heats when using a 60# bottle of HGX. I'm curious what happens when I put that stuff through a forced air ribbon burner... I'll keep ya posted! Lol 

[Frosty]

I didn't think of using a T I just had one and didn't have an elbow. It was a serendipity thing.

HGX?

Gun or NA doesn't matter. What does matter is how much flammable fuel/air you can put in the furnace per second. The real trick is putting big hairy GOBS in the chamber at a low enough velocity it doesn't just blow on through and heat the shop with carbon monoxide.

When I first saw ribbon burners I thought the real benefit was an easy way to make even heat in the chamber so started reading about them. I didn't think they needed a high pressure blower, especially if they were blowing 3' of flame out both ends of the forge. 

More reading led me to the glass blower guys sites and their multiple outlet burners. A little tinkering and NARB was born. I was REALLY surprised at how well it worked and insensitive to outside conditions they are. I barely tuned the last T driver I made and it runs wonderfully. Anyway, I discovered the real benefit of NARB is how low the flame velocity is, once the calcite burned out of the refractory surface I hardly get dragon's breath, maybe 2".

Uh . . . Where was I? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Helena]

HGX is a propane mix, like maap gas. It's propane based, but has "extras" that make it burn hotter. And yeah, I'm not planning on putting a lot of air into the forge. The blower is much smaller than some designs I've seen, and I plan on putting an adjustable cover over the intake portion of the motor. This should let me tune how much air I need. It's all about finding that balance... I think. Uh... I'm still a noob

[Frosty]

Thanks, I'm not up on some of the mix gasses. I've found I can burn steel well enough with propane so I haven't looked for hotter.

Not getting carried away with blower pressure was what I intended to say in my long winded way. I don't really care what kind of burner it is so long as it does the job well.

Throttling the air intake on the blower works well so long as the motor doesn't require the flow for cooling. It's not a motor overheating issue so  much as not being able to control the air flow through it. Sometimes it matters sometimes not so much.

You can stop saying your new to the craft, there's always something new to learn. We're all noobs to one degree or another, I learn new stuff here all the time.

Frosty The Lucky.

[psacustomcreations]

This was my second session at the forge. I had made some leaves the other day and based on the advice of Vaughn from Three Rivers Forge I started making tapers. 

I watched a bunch of videos on making tapers while I was down at Fabtech and started to make some today.

Vaughn mentioned working on consistency so I placed a center punch 1" from the end on all four sides of the four pieces of 1/2" square bar. 

This gave me a known reference point once I started working. I found that the taper started to twist a bit which I am assuming is from not holding the stock straight. I was heating two pieces at once and would alternate as they were ready. 

All work was done with a flat hammer.

The pieces are in the order I made them. With the orange piece being the last one I made. I think some of the slop or twist may also be from getting a bit tired since I am new to this

[Frosty]

Not bad at all, nice consistent tapers. A more obtuse or lighter center punch or LIGHT chisel mark won't leave so strong a mark in the piece. Save getting subtle for later though, being easy to see is a good thing while you're breaking in. Good job.

The twist (Rhombusing) isn't just not holding it square to the anvil in your case. A flat faced hammer is a BEAR to work with until you have better than good enough hammer control. You need one with a crowned face so being a little out of parallel with the anvil face doesn't immediately result in uneven cross section.

Sure you're going to rhombus your tapers till you get the knack but no sense starting out with a harder than necessary tool. 

All that said I realize I'm assuming you know the difference between a smooth faced and a flat faced hammer. Even Elcheapo' bargain store sledge, etc. hammers have crowned plain faces, the edges may be sharp but the faces almost always have some crown.  Crown refers to a slightly higher center and smooth dome to the edges.

A turning AKA rounding hammer's face is crowned and the pein is an exaggerated crown or flattened ball pein. 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[psacustomcreations]

Thanks. I am still learning and did not know the details on the faces of the hammers. I will have to look at the face of the hammer I used, but I am pretty sure it is flat with almost no crown.

I have a rounding hammer I used making the leaves last week. 

[jlpservicesinc]

Before you go and grind your faces into a crown.. Look at how you use the hammer and see where you are actually hitting un even..  I will often times hand a hammer made from mild steel with no hardness at all and have a student work with this for a few days.. After this you can see clearly where or how their hammer needs to be dressed  as every person has a way of swinging a hammer..  It takes years to learn to swing straight and level.. Move never achieve this level of skill and it's not needed for great work..  

I'm fastest with my old stand by hammers that I have over 30years on, but am always open to try something new in design.. Just have to keep in mind how I work and why.. 

[JHCC]

Made an anvil block to provide a nice flat surface when necessary. Came out a little thinner than planned, but otherwise okay. Needs just a touch of grinding. 

Also finally finished The Project To Be Named Later, so I am now free to reveal it here: a pair of bracelets for — shall we say — consenting adults. 

(There is an interesting business lesson on these. I was originally prepared to quote a price based on time and materials, but realized that a custom specialty item like this could command a premium price. I reached out to a friend of mine whom I thought might have some insight (she’s a burlesque performer — and a Juilliard-trained operatic soprano!), and she recommended a price more than twice what I had previously estimated. I guess it pays to know your market.)

[jlpservicesinc]

Shackles..  Looking good..   

For the set tool for the anvil. I suggest notching the shank to put a wedge through it or cutting off the shank and adding a spacer/bolt assembly to lock it into the anvil.. It will make the tool that more functional vs loose in the hole.. 

[JHCC]

There’s enough length on the shank that I could probably slit and drift a wedge hole, I suppose. However, the fit is extremely tight in the hardy hole, so I’m going to wait to see if that’s necessary.

[jlpservicesinc]

it will loosen up with use..  I end up tig welding extra material to any hardie tool I make as you lose a little when making them..  I like the tool to sit snuggly and the bolt or wedge method works very well.. The wedge method being the best.. 

I can't wait to get the new shop up as then I'll be making a ton of tooling.  Enough for 5 work stations..  Fun, fun, fun.. 

[Jonnytait]

Finished a pair of tongs today, with scarf welded rains - the bottom ones. The top pair I made a few weeks ago with a friend striking for me

[JHCC]

 Very good tongs; nice, clean bosses. 

 

[Jonnytait]

Thank you! I posted a video of me and my friend striking in the tongs section. Makes making tongs a lot faster for sure