What did you do in the shop today?

[JHCC]

Nice ash dump. 

[sfeile]

Thanks. I'm actually a little surprised that it stays closed with that short of a handle.  I didn't want it permanently too long so I can move it without much hassle. I had a piece of pipe to slip over the end but didn't end up needing it.

[Frosty]

Looks good, nice ash dump. Well done.

Frosty The Lucky.

[sfeile]

Thanks Frosty.

[jlpservicesinc]

12 hours ago, sfeile said:

Got it lit with the soft coal just fine. Wasn't as bad as I thought it would be at all. I did notice it doesn't seem to like a small pile. The grate on the bottom actually has an upward curve so I need to build a big pile over it to get a good coal bed.

Not sure what the inside of your forge looks like as it looks to me that it has been modified some..   The vintage coal forges like this were filled with fire clay and the firepot itself was the clay.. It's the reason the grate sits above the fire pan vs in it..  It was recommend to add substantial salt to the clay before being molded into the roundish shape bowl.. 

The later styles which had a real firepot were still supposed to be filed with fire clay to lessen the heat load around the fire pot..  sometimes on the cast iron forges they will crack if no clay is  used.. 

nice ash dump.. 

[sfeile]

Thanks.

As far as the inside of the forge, I posted it in the followed me home thread last weekend when I got it. It was recommended to use it with no lining unless it was stamped in the bottom. It is a stamped sheet steel, not cast iron. More like one of those little charcoal grills. Should I still line it?

[jlpservicesinc]

If it were mine i would line it, and create the shaped fire pot i want..

What most fail to recognize is without the clay you have to leave excess coal fines and crushed clinker to get any kind of height to the fire proper.   This crushed stuff is wetted and packed in just like clay..

 

Without proper fire depth one will have a hard time  creating a neutral or carbonizing zone in the fire as there is no depth so will end up wasting a lot of fuel to build the fire up to the correct height..

[ThomasPowers]

With coal you can fill the forge with it and just keep raking it into the fire zone and refilling.  With Charcoal you need to have a defined fire pot area that you can keep full of charcoal but not have other charcoal on the forge as all charcoal will tend to light and burn over times and having to wet down what you are not actively using is just wasted effort compared to just adding more to the fire zone as needed. When I switch from coal to charcoal I tend to add firebricks or adobe to make a trench fire and remove them when going back to coal if I need the wider access to it.

[jlpservicesinc]

As a clarification to TP's post. or to add more info..  TP if this isn't what you meant correct me.. But the information I wrote still plays true in use.. 

 He means fill the whole thing green soft coal, Ideally soaked in water, which basically acts as the firepot..  The Coal will coke around the air entering it, Thus creating a firepot of sorts..  To add new coal to the  all ready burning center, you add new green coal to the top edges of the fire which will then coke.. This is then added to the burning part of the fire..   You can use water to control the area burning if you use to much blast or just use the right about of blast and the fire will maintain the size vs burning into the green coal in the hearth bed.. 

On a steel bed hearth/forge the grate is still cast iron... The bed being steel will be prone to rusting if heated or left to being heated un protected by a heat resistant coating or source..  I've had firepots glow a nice red color when doing heavy work..  Without a good way to isolate the heat it will shorten the life span on the hearth bed.. 

But hey, different strokes for different folks and the nice thing about steel hearth beds is they are easy to fix.. 

Fire management, or using a fire in an appropriate way is rarely discussed..   

Coal or any fuel not exposed to O2 will not burn or it will burn slowly as in the edge of the tuyere or grate, the fires size can be controlled more or less with the air being fed into it and to augment this water in a sprinkling can is to be used.. . .. 

 

[sfeile]

Thank you both for the info. That's pretty much what I ended up doing. I tried to build a small fire just with the intent of trying it out for the first time. I ended up filling most of it to get a good spot for the fire and work.

I think I was burning off enough to make coke. I waited until it didn't look "tarry" anymore and the thick greenish smoke was no longer coming off of it. Then I started my work piece. Once the outer edges were looking the same, I would pull those in to add to the fire, while pulling some more from the outside to replace that on the edges.

Hopefully I was doing it properly. I was just impressed I got it lit and a hot spot in the middle haha.

[jlpservicesinc]

Nice..  Keep at it and enjoy..

[mutant]

I have the same rivet forge. Since I use mine in a small closed space, I built an enclosure and a hood for it and use a brake drum as my fire pot. I cut a large circular piece of heavy sheetmetal and made a shelf that sits on top of the brake drum. This keeps the coal level with the top of the brake drum and makes it easy to rake - if that makes sense. 

[JHCC]

Trying out blower mounting positions on the new forge. This one looks good; now to make a bracket. 

Also left some water in the bosh to test the seams. The only drips were from the drain valve.

[Frosty]

Can't you hook the blower directly and skip the hose, pipe, wire and clamps? The bungees are good, it's hardly a modern blacksmith project without duct tape or bungees.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

That’s a possibility; I’ll give it a try.

Addendum: I tried it, and I prefer the setup as shown. It’s more compact and more secure, and the blower is so overpowered that any airflow losses from the hose aren’t an issue. 

[jlpservicesinc]

when do we get a full frontal on this setup?  What did you come up with for a hood setup? 

[JHCC]

No hood at present. I’m forging in a two-car garage with the door open and a big standing fan to eject the little smoke the anthracite puts out. 

I’m playing with an idea for a downdraft hood that could take the smoke out more directly, but that’s a little way off. 

[jlpservicesinc]

If you run with a down draft hood what would you use for a sucker? 

While I am a fan of using anthracite I also dislike the smell of it far more than soft coal.. With that said the smoke isn't the problem for me as much as the smell..   Despite what everybody say's in regards to soft vs hard coal,   The fumes from hard coal with the sulfur gets me just with the little smoke produced..  The only time I have a problem with the soft coal is when I clean out the firepot and throw the clinker into the pail..  Mind you I use a chimney and would certianly use a stack with both... 

My forging career started out with wood fired boiler which then was converted to hard coal so worked with this also..   I used hard coal in my early forges but switched over to soft once I found a place to buy it.. 

Once the shop is up, I'll offer different forge types for people to try.. 

[JHCC]

1 hour ago, jlpservicesinc said:

If you run with a down draft hood what would you use for a sucker? 

Here’s the basic idea, and  I have no idea if this would actually work. A small hood over (or next to) the fire would connect via a short vertical flue to a longer horizontal one (lying on the garage floor and stretching out the door). A strong fan would blow into one end of the horizontal flue, creating suction to draw the smoke down the vertical flue and push it out the horizontal, like this:

[jlpservicesinc]

I will be curious if it works. the Venturi effect can be a tough one to work out as there is a velocity factor.. You guys really make my brain smoke as I end up thinking about stuff from over 30 years ago. 

I looked into it years ago and a belt driven squirrel cage blower is what I was steered to as a cost efficient way to go..  there were direct drive squirrel but they were much more expensive and was told with the motor so close that the heat transfer might become a problem..  No problem with a Belt drive.. 

I might look into it again once I get the shop up to vent the smoke up a flue to shoot it higher into the air..
 

[Marc1]

The right tool to make that flue work is an in line, belt driven fan. Something like in this picture. This is a big industrial one but they make them much smaller built the same way. 

 

 

[jlpservicesinc]

YUP, that be it.. 

[JHCC]

16 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

when do we get a full frontal on this setup? 

Here’s the current state, basically ready to go:

Rear view:

And I added a shroud to protect the variac from flying scale and dust settling out of the air. 

[Frosty]

18 hours ago, JHCC said:

That’s a possibility; I’ll give it a try.

Addendum: I tried it, and I prefer the setup as shown. It’s more compact and more secure, and the blower is so overpowered that any airflow losses from the hose aren’t an issue. 

I don't think there's anything "wrong" with how you have it set up, I just reflexively simplify things if I can. I don't think there's be any difference in function and sticking the motor and blower straight out the back would take up more shop space making it a poor choice. 

Can't wait to see this baby in action. Going to paint it, what color?

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

JHCC, while i like the design overall, I'm a little baffled as to why you went up with the bosh instead of a more conventional sideways lay out?   With having it that high it will mess with a hooded or down draft affair vs a low mounted bosh.. 

Looks really nice.. When is the first firing?  Also love the rheostat..   On/off function is superb.. Set it and forget it.. Just a flick on, flick off.. Excellent. 

I dislike slider gates to control airflow..