trying out new coal

[Duncan M]

Today I tried some coal that a friend picked up for me from a coal mine in Princeton BC. I do not know what type of coal it is so I wanted to see how it burns. The fresh coal creates a great deal of smoke and large flames. the smoke was expected but the flames that it created were much larger than I'm used to. the coal didn't seem to form any coke as it burned so I assumed that it was anthracite. It easily got half inch square stock to a yellow heat and started to melt the metal when I wasn't paying attention. I left the fire with no airflow for a few minuets and it was still burning when I came back. After about 45 minuets of forging I realized that there was a large clinker in the bottom of the fire pot. Using my poker i pulled it out. the clinker was about 4" in diameter and 1 1/2 " thick and quite light. I added more coal and continued forging for another 15 minuets. I use a hand crank blower and a home built forge. 

If anyone knows what type of coal I have It would be good to know. Also do you think that It would be worth getting a pickup load of the stuff.

[Stash]

I was given some coal to sample that acted the same way yours did. It seemed to be bituminous, created decent coke, but had a lot of volatiles in it, hence the flames. I wondered if it was stoker coal- furnace fuel soaked with fuel oil. I couldn't get rid of the junk fast enough. As far as getting a pickup load, that is your call. Is that the only coal you have access to? Is the nuisance factor worth putting up with? I had access to better supply, and went in that direction. YMMV

Steve

[arkie]

Stash, not all "stoker" coal is the same.  Where you buy it, it may be soaked with oil.  Where we buy coal, stoker is a size only, sorted from the crusher.  Stoker is one of the larger sizes, say 1-2".  That "stoker" is not any way treated with fuel oil...just a size name.  Check with your supplier and make sure that it's just plain old coal, not treated.  My favorite bituminous here is what the mine calls "chicken coal", about 1", being used by some chicken houses now and in the past.  When I first heard the term, I thought maybe someone was cooking chickens with it...UGH!  LOL

[ThomasPowers]

Please note that all the terms descriptive of coal size has NOTHING to do with what the actual properties are.  Can you find out where it comes from?  That might give a better idea of what type of coal it is.

As mentioned, YOU are the smith that gets to decide if it's worth using or best left alone!

[BillyBones]

Here is a pic of the 2 types. On the right is bituminous and on the left is anthracite. The anthracite has "glassy" like appearance and is "tight"  or you can not see the serrations. While bituminous has a duller look, a fresh break will make it more glossy, and you can see the separate layers quite easily. Also when you are breaking it the bituminous will split like shale in layers. 

 

[Duncan M]

Hi everyone, and thanks for the replies.

On 8/9/2020 at 3:28 PM, Stash said:

I was given some coal to sample that acted the same way yours did. It seemed to be bituminous, created decent coke, but had a lot of volatiles in it, hence the flames.

Steve, I have tried the coal again and the flames aren't to big a deal. I am fairly certain that the coal isn't soaked in fuel. It doesn't seem to form coke even if I get it wet. before using this coal I was using coal that came from Thak iron works in Ontario. i enjoyed forging with that coal but sadly the shipping costs from Ontario to British Columbia. Thak sells an 80lbs bag of bituminous coal for 80$ cdn but with shipping it doubles the price. 

18 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Please note that all the terms descriptive of coal size has NOTHING to do with what the actual properties are.  Can you find out where it comes from?  That might give a better idea of what type of coal it is.

the coal seems to vary in size from rice sized to walnut size. I understand that size has nothing to do with the type of coal , but wonder if there is a size that you find preferable? As I have said the coal comes from a mine outside of Princeton in southern British Columbia. I don't recall the name of the mine But can find out.

17 hours ago, BillyBones said:

Here is a pic of the 2 types. On the right is bituminous and on the left is anthracite. The anthracite has "glassy" like appearance and is "tight"  or you can not see the serrations. While bituminous has a duller look, a fresh break will make it more glossy, and you can see the separate layers quite easily. Also when you are breaking it the bituminous will split like shale in layers. 

the coal definitely appears glassy, some pieces more than others but I can also see the layers in many chunks. It could be possible that I have a mix of both anthracite and bituminous.

 

After forging with it for 6 or 8 hours I have decided that I don't mind using it. The biggest down fall is the fact that I creates many clinkers and I have to pull a large one out of the bottom of my fire pot every half hour or forty five minuets. If I don't find an alternative I think I'll probably get a load as it seems to do the trick. 

I can post pics if you me to.

~Duncan

[arkie]

We have been getting coal from an Oklahoma strip mine for at least the past 10 or so years.  That mine's coal seam was about 15"-17" thick bituminous coal.  For some reason a year or so ago, they moved to another strip mine location about 5 miles away.  The coal from the original site was relatively low in clinker production and not bad to forge with.  The coal from this new mine location produces probably twice the amount of clinker.  Either the coal from the newer mine is the same coal seam but "dirty-er" or is a different coal seam with more contaminants.  I need to talk to the mine and see what the coal seam is that they are currently mining and the analysis.  Coal is not constant in composition any one area and can vary in quality even within one coal seam.

[BillyBones]

Sorry, i did not realize that pic was as bad as it is. But you can still get an idea of how the 2 compare when you break them.

I have found that the anthracite i have been using makes a clinker but it is much more powdery than what i get from bituminous. Also i got a load of coal today that comes from KY. I have found that even in coal from the same batch can have different clinker content. I can break up one piece and get almost none and another have to dig them out every hour or so. 

If you are happy with the way it burns and it gets your metal hot, then that is all that matters. 

[Frazer]

I use anthracite since that's the only kind I can find around me in bulk. It does form coke. The clinker from it is very powdery.. It sticks together for one scoop, but after that it's just a bunch of little pieces. This last batch has a very.. interesting.. smell. 

I also run into variation in the amount of clinker even within a single load. It works fine for me, even if it's not the best forging coal.

80lbs bag of bituminous coal for 80$ cdn?? Even putting aside the shipping, that's wildly expensive. Almost 10x what I pay for anthracite. Hopefully this other stuff you got is much cheaper. That alone would be worthwhile, extra volatiles or no.

[ThomasPowers]

What size depends on how that coal "works".  I was using nut coal when I got Sewell Seam coal which was very nice and low clinker.

Out here I can get coal from Colorado mine that is sold ground fine and you mix it with water to use.  Doesn't coke as well and a lot more clinker.

Some folks using anthracite say that "rice" is a good size for that.

I remember Frank Turley coming down for the Festival of the Cranes with some coal chunks that were HUGE, like 8-10 inches on a "side" and getting a good fire running and forge welding with it.  Big chunks usually break down into littler pieces in use. (Or the hammer or coal rake striking it!)

[Frazer]

I use nut coal. Every once in a while I'll add some rice coal in there since I always keep a bucket or two of that around. For general use I prefer the nut, although it tends to result in more clinker. Doing a mix seems to result in the hottest fire. Granted coal from different regions is going to be different for everyone. I get mine from a small farm supply store (not tractor supply) and have no idea where it comes from. Might be a good question to ask. 

When my niece comes over she likes to take my little ball peen hammer and put pieces of the coal on her "anvil" (the piece of 1" mild steel plate I put on top of my anvil when punching/chiseling) and break up the big pieces of coal into small pieces. She is fascinated by the "pretty colors" inside the anthracite. She likes coal and getting dirty like her uncle. At least I did that right  

[ThomasPowers]

Not too early to start saving up for a "Muscle Car" for her---one that she can work on herself!

[Kozzy]

A quick dip into research implies that it's going to likely be high-volatile bituminous from that area.  Tends to burn a bit faster than the usual bituminous for smithing so will make more flame as it out-gasses it's volatiles.  Says that coal also tends to be pretty high in the goodies that make clinker.  Lots of sulfur. More water content than many coals.

However...commercial coal talk is a bit hard to sort through and the fields in that area are a bit variable..so what I said only as an impression, not verified fact.

Should theoretically coke up to some extent.  One reference says that no anthracite is currently mined in BC and that deposits of that are pretty much only in remote regions.

[Duncan M]

On 8/11/2020 at 7:43 AM, Frazer said:

I use anthracite.  I also run into variation in the amount of clinker even within a single load. It works fine for me, even if it's not the best forging coal.

The clinker that I get sounds similar, it comes out as a large mass but is very brittle afterwards. as for the price of this coal it's free other than the cost to get there. there is a pile of coal that the mine allows you to take from.

On 8/11/2020 at 6:41 PM, Kozzy said:

A quick dip into research implies that it's going to likely be high-volatile bituminous from that area.  Tends to burn a bit faster than the usual bituminous for smithing so will make more flame as it out-gasses it's volatiles.  

that report sounds quite similar to the way this coal behaves in the forge, and it's interesting to know that there is very little anthracite in BC. As for the coke, I believe that the individual pieces of coal may turn to coke but it doesn't clump together into larger Pieces of coke.