Water not sticking to ceramic fibers when ridgidizing

[Fredvårek]

Hello all.

Have been stalking this forum for a while, finally made an account.

 

Couldn't find any threads on here about this, but delete this if its been answered before.

When im buttering the ceramic wool for ridgidizing, it wont absorb at all. The water just pools up as little droplets on the surface of the wool.  It's called "Fyrewrap" I believe, used as insulation on industrial pipes. It can apparently handle  ~1260C (2300 freedom-units). On one side it has some sort of metal foil to keep it from fraying, easily comes off. 

Is it possible that i used too little colloidal silica in the mix?

 

Any tips?

 

And BTW, i have a couple gas-forge questions unrelated to ridgidizing and would appreciate if i can ask someone on PM. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

What did the manufacturer say when you asked them?

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

BTW: Welcome to IFI,  Probably be better to ask your questions on the forum as opposed to PM. If you ask someone over PM none of the expert forage builders/designers will see it and some of the answers you get may be wrong.

[George N. M.]

You might try adding something to the water to break its surface tension.  A bit of soap might work or a dishwashing product like Jetdry.

Also, please post your location.  Where in the world you are may affect our responses.  And peruse the "Read this First" in the blue banner at the top of the page.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Fredvårek]

Thomaspowers, Havent asked them. Good point. Writing them an email right now. 

Didn't think they could provide me with an answer regarding this, but we'll see.

 

[ThomasPowers]

They should have people providing support to users of their products and I don't think that adding a refractory coating to it should be considered that odd a use.

[Fredvårek]

I will try adding soap to the mix and see if that works, clever.   

Sent Fyrewrap an email. I just thought someone else here had experienced the same thing. Even after watering it down with a garden hose it still won't absorb well. 

Also; Do you light the forge after applying the ridgidizer?

[Buzzkill]

Does the beading up happen with plain water or only when trying to apply the rigidizer?   If you made the rigidizer yourself did you make sure you got hydrophilic colloidal silica rather than hydrophobic?

I have no experience with that particular brand of insulation, so I have no idea if it is the underlying issue or the rigidizer.

[Fredvårek]

The beading happens with both the rigidizer and plain water.

I remember reading from frosty that you could use West systems 406, so thats what i used. Not sure if its Hydrophobic or hydrophillic, im assuming hydrophilic. It mixed out with water just fine? I am going to try and rough up the surface of the wool and use some soap in the mix, see if that helps. 

It was the only insulation that i had "easily" acessible up here in the Norway, probably not the most ideal though.

 

. I'm struggling to find an alternative to KOL, not sure what to do. 

[tinkertim]

I bet if it's for insulating pipes that it has some kind of water-repellent properties, as you wouldn't want a leaking pipe to completely fill the insulation layer with water, especially as it has a metal foil backing. You might get the insulation so heavy with water that it pulls itself off the pipes. Not ideal.

Just a thought. Good luck.

Tink!

[Fredvårek]

Update; I made work, kinda. 

As the refractory i used last time didnt work, i was gonna replace it.That time it wasnt bonding to the wrap at ALL. I found out that after exposing the wool to proper heat, the liquid absorbed much better. I have no idea why. Not sure if i soaked it too much this time, if that matters at all. I'm doing another spraydown later of the remaining white patches.

Mixed the rigidizer thicker and added a little bit of soap. The sides of the wool absorbed water just fine so i think it has been treated somehow on the front side. 

Also got in contact with FyreWrap and they told me that its usually secured by pinning the material with clips or pre-welded pins, and not rigidized with colloidal silica. . Some kind of putty was normally used to bind the fibers on the surface of the wool.

Tinkertim you are correct, its used for wrapping piping industrially. 

 

[Frosty]

Just a drop or two of dish soap is plenty, if it doesn't work more won't either. I've had the best luck using "Jetdry" a product to eliminate spotting in dishwashers. It's a wetting agent which breaks surface tension so water "wets" what it touches rather than bead up and run off. 

I'm thinking you might want to find ceramic fiber refractory intended for furnaces rather than pipe insulation. I have no idea how common furnaces are in Israel though.

Frosty The Lucky.