Caleb Schwenk Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 I recently came across a 25lb trip hammer made by Mayer that had been in a shop fire. It was locked up and it needs several minor repairs. I managed to get it turning and get most of it apart, however I am having an issue with the drive shaft assembly. While typically Mayer Bros is interchangeable with the Little Giant models, this one has a single piece solid cast body, with no bolt on mounting brackets. This means I cannot simply remove the assembly to change the belt and replace the clutch mesh and bearings. I cannot find any resources online other than the Little Giant models with removable brackets. I don't know if I should be able to remove the flywheel by just pulling it off? It is keyed but no set screw that I can find. Even once I remove the flywheel, the shaft would need to be pounded out or something to remove the clutch assembly. Has anyone else run into this model or one with similar issues? Any advice would be appreciated. I have included pictures of my hammer and the typical Little Giant assembly for reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew T Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Seems like you need to loosen the clutch assembly from the shaft. Then slide the shaft out, not pound it, with the crank plate attached. Isn't there a set screw on the clutch spider holding it to the shaft? I've never worked on that type of hammer, but I can't see how else it would be put together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Schwenk Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) Well I did find one bolt on the clutch assembly but I can't figure out what exactly it does. Will upload a picture and do some more fiddling. Thank you! Edited July 22, 2020 by Mod30 Remove excessive quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Cone in Cone clutch. My 1915 25# LG has one. I had to pull the shaft off the hammer and work the clutch with lots of time and penetrating oil till I could slide the part that moves in and out, out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Schwenk Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) Do you mean the outer cone that engages the clutch? That all moves fine but i cant seem to get the shaft to budge. Edited July 22, 2020 by Mod30 Remove excessive quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 When you ask questions you'll have better luck if you use the correct terms. Shafts aren't held in place with "brackets" those are "bearing caps". A fire can have a lot of thing locked up besides bearings and keyed shafts. I can't offer much but reinforcement for your long involved job getting it apart. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Let me see if the storms will hold off enough tonight that I can take a picture of mine---it's on a work bench. My cone in cone clutch doesn't have a replaceable wear surface. LG suggested that if it didn't have enough grip anymore I should braze three or more spots on the moving piece to engage in a sliding fit. Do you have the shaft off the hammer and on a workbench? I had to use a come-a-long to safely get mine down to where I could work on it. A better description of what you are trying to accomplish would help. Also have you called and talked with the very nice people at Little Giant? littlegianthammer.com has contact info and they will probably be some of the most knowledgeable folks on rebuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Schwenk Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) This bolt is the only one I see. It has a round head and it seems like it's got a piece inside the hole there that it is also threaded through or connected to. Either way it will not budge. 5 hours ago, Frosty said: use the correct terms. Thanks I didn't know the correct name. 5 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: A better description of what you are trying to accomplish would help. My goal is to remove the shaft from the hammer. Should all be smooth sailing from there. I have not tried to get in contact with Little Giant although I browsed that site for diagrams and part lists. Just to clarify I need to remove the shaft from the hammer body so that i can replace the lining on the clutch and put a new belt on for starters. Per Frosty's correction, my hammer does not have bearing caps. It is a solid one piece construction. This is tripping me up because all of the information I can find online involves machines with bearing caps. Edited July 22, 2020 by Mod30 Trim quotes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 First post, fourth picture down shows bearing caps---that isn't your hammer, it's the "standard version"? Little Giant can tell you what/how to remove things to get the main shaft lifted down. Why are you not already on the phone to them? MUCH safer to work on clutch innerds with the main shaft and clutch and counterweight on the work bench. Expanding on what I said previously, what I did was: I ran a section of chain around a roof beam and fastened a come-a-long to it and then ran a different chain around the front of the counter weight---having disconnected the pitman previously and hooked it and then around the shaft behind the clutch and fastened it. Then I hooked it to the com-a-long and lifted it off of the bearings and using the lower function of the come-a-long I got it down to where I could safely grab it and move it to the workbench. (I tried to give up dropping heavy items on myself around the time I had kids; now my oldest is Dr Powers!) As to that bolt; how many weeks have you been treating it with a good penetrating oil? It it into a threaded section of the fitting or was it just with a nut on the end (or both!) If the end is too rounded for a closed end wrench you may have to use a stout pipe wrench to grab the head. Worst case you will need to use heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Schwenk Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) Correct the fourth picture shows the standard. I have been treating the bolt daily with penetrating oil about a week. Have been trying pipe wrench etc but it doesn't look like it ever had a hex head to begin with which makes me question whether it is meant to be turned in that way. I will see if I can get ahold of someone from that site but at first glance the contact info is to order parts and repairs etc. Edited July 22, 2020 by Mod30 Excessive quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 I oiled my hammer for about 2 months before starting the tear down. After spending 25 years laying down uncovered on a pallet in a person's back yard; I had no big problems removing all the bolts. My friend who got the 50# hammer found that a previous owner had tack welded everything they could to prevent things working loose. I got first choice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Be patient Caleb it takes time to loosen rust. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew T Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Caleb, I'm calling the clutch part with the headless bolt the "clutch spider" the part that spins freely the "clutch pulley". It seem that the pulley is free the rotate and slide, so nothing needs to be done to it. The spider is fixed to the shaft somehow, and needs to be loosened so the shaft can slide free of it. I can't tell how the headless bolt is acting on the spider/shaft, but I'm guessing that's the key. A quick call to LG might confirm a course of action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Schwenk Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 Andrew thanks for clarifying terms once again. Yes this is exactly the conclusion I came to. I have contacted LG and one other resource about how the bolt acts on the shaft and spider. Hopefully Thomas and Frosty are right and I just need more time and a bigger pipe wrench but it looks like there is another piece connected to the bolt inside the bolt hole, otherwise the bolt would be free floating from the threaded end as the hole is oversized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I don't know which penetrating oil you are using, but can tell ya that a 50/50 mix of Dexron transmission fluid and acetone will out preform any commercial oil (even Kroil) which is the best next to the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 As I'm usually impatient; I've learned over the years that the first thing to do when I get a new old rusty piece of machinery home is to spray all the nuss, bolts, bearings and shafts with a good penetrating oil and go do something else till the next weekend. Try to dissemble anything that seems like it might; spray and wait another weekend. Repeat as necessary until you get down to the stubborn ones. Then make the decision on if you are willing to break it or try more interesting methods---heat/cold, slide hammers, etc. As It's usually weekends when I can work anyway this allows me to feel some progress is getting made. Also lead and brass hammers are a key part of an old machinery work kit! As I mentioned my hammer spent about 2 months getting a weekly oiling and a pretty hefty day/night heating/cooling cycle that helps the oil penetrate. Then a couple of weekends in active tear down---with muffin tins to hold the nuts and bolts as they get removed in the order they were removed. Another weekend to safely pull the main shaft and get it on the workbench and then it's a matter of deciding what to replace and can I make it, repair it or afford to buy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Schwenk Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 Got it! You guys were right the LG staff knew the mechanism. It's a tapered pin so it just needed some force and heat to get the pin out. Hammer is ready for cleaning and reassembly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 GREAT! We had rain yesterday evening so I was not able to get a picture of my hammer's clutch. (No lights in the shop as no electricity in the shop---I hope to have it installed before my powerhammer is working...) Do you have a motor for your hammer? I was able to get a good brand 1.75 hp motor in excellent shape at my scrapyard for US$10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Schwenk Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 I have a 3/4 horse. Looking for a 1 hp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Check to see if there are any local motor repair places; they sometimes have motors they have fixed that were never picked up. I have bought good used motors from several shops like that at a very good price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Caleb S said: cleaning and reassembly! How did you check the bearings? If it has Babbitt or Bronze bearings, I can guarantee that they suffered damage in the fire, Babbitt may have actually melted away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Caleb S said: I have a 3/4 horse. Looking for a 1 hp Look on Free Cycle. Folks are often HAPPY to have that old hot tub hauled off. Most are run by 2 - 3 hp 240v motors. I finally got the components and circuits rigged to run a 1.5hp DC motor in a 2" x 72" belt grinder. It ran nicely, got the direction right so it wouldn't unscrew the pully, mounted it in the grinder and it blew the circuit breaker and never even quivered again. I tried all sorts of stuff to clear something that might be shorting it but nope it's a dead one. I was lamenting to the guys in the local club and one says, I've got a hot tub motor want it? 2hp. 240v! Woo HOO! Then Deb and I are garage saling and maybe 5 miles from home at a moving sale I'm talking to the owner and mention the hot tub motor, the lady yells HONEY! Then turns back and says PLEASE take that nobody will even make an offer. Oh? What's wrong with it. HONEY arrives fro in back and says nothing we were using it last weekend. I lift the lid and sure enough it smells like chlorine. 3hp. 240v motor! Hmmm, this one will look nice on the 50lb. LG! Then last fall we tossed our old hot tub off the upper deck but I'd already pulled that 2hp. 240v. motor. I've been ignoring please PLEASE take this hot tub!! ads and please ever since, I don't need another motor right now. All that is to say, hot tubs turn into anchors when a home owner wants to remodel, move or just gets tired of tubbing. It's well worth keep your eyes open. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Schwenk Posted July 24, 2020 Author Share Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Irondragon ForgeClay Works said: How did you check the bearings? There was no play in the shaft. Solid as a rock. Definitely not babbit it looks like a bushing could be bronze or brass. Could anyone point me in the right direction for a motor pulley? From what I have found (please correct me if I am wrong) you're supposed to use a 2" flat belt not a v belt. I have a belt but not sure what to use as a motor pulley. All I have are v belt pulleys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I made mine from glued laminated wood bolted to a V-belt pulley, turned to diameter. Put a slight crown in the wood to help the flat belt stay on the pulley. You can use a V-belt, better to use two,matched belts. The nice thing about a flat leather belt is no need to disassemble anything to install/change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Excellent idea! As was your suggestion for atf and acetone. I've found nothing beats it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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