Chris C Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 I'm getting tired of having to light a torch just to start my forge, so I bought a piezo starter today. When I took it to my forge to start trying to figure out how to mount it, I got to thinking the interior of the forge might be too hot for the sparking end. Any suggestions? I'm using a forced air ribbon burner, if that makes any difference in your response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 It would definitely melt if left in the forge. Any way to set the sparker in the forge then pull it out after lighting the burner. A lot of folks just light a small ball of newspaper and toss it in the forge to light it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 I toss a wooden kitchen match at the forge opening to light my 2 T burners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Williams Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 You can make a "spark stick" with your piezo, a length of tube, more wire (if needed), and something to prevent hot gas intrusion into the working end of the tube (dab of refractory, or mortar, or even silicone). It shouldn't be in the heat long and will keep you out of the flame as well (make it long enough!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 I've never been able to get my forge to light with a paper wad or match. The fan just blows it out. It takes the hand-held propane torch. I'd like to have some way that the sparker stays inside the forge............just like the commercial forges that have piezo spark starters in them! Guess I'm going to have to actually look at a forge with a piezo starter in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Try this: take one of those long barbecue/fireplace lighters with the piezo sparker at the tip, like this: Turn the gas on to the forge, stand to one side, place the tip of the lighter just inside the forge opening, and click until the fire catches. You get a bit of a WHOOF in that first second, which is a great way to impress the neighborhood kids. Just make sure that no part of you is in the way of the puff of flame, especially if you want to keep all your hair. The great thing about these is that even after the non-refillable butane supply is used up, the piezo sparker still works and is just as effective for lighting your forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 That's what I started with...........but the air and gas blow out the flame. So I use one of those to light my propane torch and the torch to light the forge. But I hadn't thought about the piezo sparker on one to light the forge. Good idea. Only I've already bought a barbecue piezo starter like the ones on so many commercial forges. I've got a friend who has one on his. I'll get in touch with him and see how it's mounted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 For blown burners the sparker is usually located in the mixing tube, upstream of the flare. This allows the relatively cold air/gas mixture to keep it from burning out. With a multi-port outlet type system you may have a problem with this, as it will ignite the mixture upstream of the restrictive outlets and could lead to damage. Please be extremely careful if you decide to go forward with this plan. If you can do it with a torch and just don't like lighting the torch, why not use one of these: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 11 hours ago, Chris C said: but the air and gas blow out the flame Ah, I see the problem: my ribbon burner is naturally aspirated, so I get ignition when the fuel/air mixture in the forge reaches the proper balance, and then the flame burns back to the block and stays there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 Laticino, I think that's a good solution. Just that they are too blasted expensive for my tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Well if price is the issue, you can just go with what I have used for years: Bic lighter and a rolled "spliff" of newsprint. This works best for me as my gas valve is a good 6' away from my forge. I just turn on the blower at about 1/2 output, light the paper and place in forge, then open the gas valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 As I preciously mentioned, that hasn't worked for me. No sweat. As I also said, I've a friend with a piezo starter in his forge. I'll check and see how it's hooked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Williams Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, Chris C said: As I preciously mentioned, You don't think that we are undervaluing your experience, I hope! I think that several valid methods have been presented for lighting your forge, including using the piezo that you have already purchased. If you really just want to mimic your friend's setup, then please let us know how it is set up and how it works for you. For a permanent installation, I do think that you will want to use a material for the spark gap and wiring that will withstand the forge temperature and environment. Maybe you can have them come through your burner outlets and barely protrude inside the forge? The conductor may get too hot and cause combustion behind your burner block, however. Routing the conductors through the door would require support or covers to keep them safe from your work. Also, my preference when I rely on a fixed piezo spark gap to ignite a combustible gas is that I can see the spark from a safe place (i.e., I don't want my face in the flames when it starts! ) to make sure that it is functional so that I don't enrich my surroundings with the gas before I figure out that I don't have a spark. They do eventually wear out, and the gap can be moved too far apart for a spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Chris C said: As I preciously mentioned, that hasn't worked for me. Yes, I know. Was just trying to suggest a small modification to that technique that works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 Chris, Latticino has me worrying about location. I was originally thinking about inside the forge but them concern over melting was brought up...........then there was mention about inside my static mixer.........but that's behind the burner and I know I don't want a flame "behind". I'll look at my friend's, but I've a feeling the BBQ starter is going back to the store. Disappointed, though because every time I see someone "push the red button and have immediate flame", that little green man inside me rears up and takes notice. I know, Laticino..........I was just sayin' "been there-done that". Thanks for the suggestion, though. I have a gnawing feeling I'll end up just buying the piezo activated propane nozzle you suggested a few posts back............even though I'll pucker when I buy it. I know several smiths who use it successfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Back in the mid 80s and artmetal / theforge / etc. list days guys were trying different things to make self lighting forges as: BBQ, torch, etc. igniters weren't lasting in the heat. One of my favorite alternatives was rigging a "gapless" spark plug and motorcycle magneto as an igniter. The gapless(I don't recall the correct name) plugs were a post in the center rather than the bridge. The distance between the spark post and ground ring was preset. Another old tymey method is to wrap a long piece of wire with a LITTLE cotton cloth, give it a squirt or dip of flammable oil, light it and put it in the forge, removed and snuffed after the burner's going. A thought I've been thinking about but haven't played with is to recess the spark wire and ground in the refractory in a position that will be in the mixture stream but out of the real HOTNESS of the forge. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 What about a striker, like for oxy-acetylene torches? I don't know how how big of a flame you'll get on ignition/how close your arm will be to it using a striker, but worst case scenario you have another way to light your torch.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 That's funny you'd mention that. Took me a couple of months to grow the hair back on my arm after trying to fire up the forge the first time with a flint-striker. Frosty, I'd thought about recessing it in the refractory, but decided against it because of overheating. My entire forge (thanks to the swirl suggestion you made that I incorporated) is the same color top to bottom, side to side and end to end. No "cooler" spot to put it in. Nothing to complain about there. Might work, but I don't want to mess with the refractory because it's already starting to pull away from the bricks in several areas, so I think it may be slightly fragile. Don't think I want to try drilling into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Ha, well that settles that. Make yourself some striker tongs and extend your reach! I say that in jest. Although it could work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 I toss a lit wooden kitchen match at the forge opening to light my 2 T burners. If I have one of my apprentices in the smithy; I'll have them light the forge---for amusement purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 A simple way to end the problem is to drill a 1/4" hole a burner's mixing tube, near the gas orifice, and add a sleeve (with thumb screw), which can be slipped back and forth to cover the hole. Thereafter, and $5 blue flame butane lighter's flame can ignite the burner; no fuss no muss, and no burned fingers. For multiple burners, only the rear burner needs the igniter hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Now traditionally you have your apprentice Igor fly the box kites into the thunder storms.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 53 minutes ago, Mikey98118 said: For multiple burners, only the rear burner needs the igniter hole. This is a forced air ribbon burner with 149 holes, Mikey. Do I want to be lighting the propane "behind" that??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshj Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I'm not sure about a ribbon burner... But, am I thinking right?- in that even if ignited in the mixture tube just before the burner box... wouldnt the airflow push the flame out of the burner box inside the forge? Or am I way off base? Would it ignite at all inside the closed mixture tube? The blower should keep the flame pushed back past the gas orifice.... or would the flux capacitor interfere there too? I'm thinking along the lines of an old school flame thrower exhaust on a hot rod. The spark plug is located inside the exhaust pipe, ignites un-burnt fuel in the pipe- and is blown out by engine exhaust pressure... wala! Flame throwers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, Welshj said: Or am I way off base? YES, I doubt strongly any amount of flow would push the lit flame out through holes too small to support a flame. Sorry Chris, Mike's suggestion won't work for a ribbon burner. You need to ignite the mix as it exits the burner. If you have several ribbon burners then the point about lighting the back one lights them all holds true. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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