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jt0119

Devil Forge burners not burning properly

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Not yet, I'm just going by the sound and what I'm seeing. The only time I've heard a similar sound is a few videos I've watched where that was the issue, and I can see the flame moving up into the hole I have in the refractory. 

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Audio can be just as deceiving as color in online videos. You need to investigate before you start imagining if or what's wrong, could be nothing. Here's the important question. Is it getting hot enough to use? Then is it making scale IN the forge?

The occasional pop or sputter is nothing, they all do it. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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It's definitely putting out plenty of heat, and I don't think any scale is forming until I pull it from the forge. It's very possible I'm just overly jumpy after having so many issues getting to this point :D

Mikey, if you're talking about any dragon's breath, I'm pretty sure it's all nice and yellow! 

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Dragon's breath, and what it means ()or doesn't) could make an entire chapter in a book, or a sticky thread on IFI. Making educated guesses about chemistry can be a drag.

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By "yellow" I HOPE you mean orange as in oxidizing calcite binder in the refractory orange. Yellow would be worse than a little blue in the dragon's breath. 

Mike: Is your read on blue dragon's breath, rich or turn the burner down, or? I know you've said but I can never seem to remember. I'll write it down this time. Honest. :)

Frosty The Lucky.

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It looks pretty much identical to what was in the original video, so if you didn't see anything wrong there, we should be good! 

I'm also curious about the blue dragon's breath. Never seen it personally, but if it's bad I'd like to know how to fix it. 

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You could say that forges can have up to have three flames; the burner flame; the forge atmosphere; and the exhaust flame, if any. Ideally, there should be no flame in the exhaust gases. even a neutral flame can be turned up high enough to continue burning outside the forge. More commonly, secondary combustion products in reducing flames are what continue burning in the exhaust gases; they can be yellow orange-red, and or blue.

Blue flames in the exhaust are carbon monoxide being combusted; what is bad about them is that not all of that Co is combusted...a little bit of blue flame licking around the exhaust port, indicates that an even smaller amount of Co is escaping into the shop. But I have also seen photos of LARGE blue flames pouring larger amounts of Co into shops--this is bad.

To be thorough, nearly solid yellow to wispy orange exhaust flames can be made by calcium binders in some refractories, as they burn off.

Did that help, or does it just muddy the waters?

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That helps immensely, thank you! Something to keep in the back of my mind, for sure. 

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Blue forge atmosphere or exhaust is burning CO. Turning the flame down would still leave uncombusted fuel in the forge atmosphere. More combustion air or something else?

I've never had blue flame in a forge atmosphere or exhaust. Burner flames themeselves are it for my personal experience. 

Thanks Mike.

Frosty The Lucky.

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4 hours ago, Frosty said:

By "yellow" I HOPE you mean orange as in oxidizing calcite binder in the refractory orange. Yellow would be worse than a little blue in the dragon's breath. 

Mike: Is your read on blue dragon's breath, rich or turn the burner down, or? I know you've said but I can never seem to remember. I'll write it down this time. Honest. :)

Frosty The Lucky.

And this is why I keep implying that this subject would make a well justified permanent thread (so far as its value is concerned) and a rabbit hole (which is likely to stretch into a twenty pages long bone for us tired old guys to chew :P

So, wispy to nearly solid orange flames versus nearly solid yellow flames; which one indicates oxidizing calcium binder? I have seen both in photos of the same troubled' forges shown on IFI

And, yes, I know that calcium flames are orange; not yellow. But, since the yellow flames appeared in some of the same photos as the orange flames, and since they were nearly solid colors and a peculiar tint, which I have never seen before or since in exhaust, I conclude that something else in the binder was cooking off at the same time as the calcium.

I would like to say with certainty that blue flame is from a rich mixture; in the case of a whole lot of blue flame, I am certain that's the case. When a tiny little bit of blue exhaust flame is present, I have to say "yes, but..." I really hate uncertainty; the uncertainty in this case is not of what, but of why. I know how to stop it, but I have a niggling uncertainly that I truly know all that I think I know...ugh/!!! I HATE that :rolleyes:

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Thanks Mike. Good point about yellow flame possibly being something else oxidizing in the refractory. There's also the possibility it's typical digital camera inaccuracy. 

I'll pay closer attention for blue exhaust gasses. Our club is really just starting to take off it'd be a shame to have any killed practicing the craft.

Hah, every time I think I know what I know the truth rears it's ugly head and bites me. I HATE having to qualify everything I say but it's getting that way. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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See, conversations like this show me just how much more I have to learn about this, and I absolutely love it. 

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Remember, the more you learn the more you realize how much you don't know.

Frosty The Lucky.

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