In search of some advice

[M.G.]

I'm looking around at post/leg vises, and have found one semi locally. The gentleman who is selling it,  was kind enough to disassemble it and take some in depth photos for me. 

To my untrained eye, it looks to be in pretty workable shape for a project to refurbish. But the only thing I am slightly concerned about, and looking for input on, would be the condition of the screw. It looks pretty rough and thin in a few spots. The gentleman claims it to be at about half life, and that it is not a difficult job to replace a screw if needed. 

Also i noticed it is missing the mounting plate.   Not my biggest worry. 

The vise is a 6" jaw. And weighs about 110lbs...not sure the make of it.

But here are the photos. Let me know what you guys n gals think. Thanks in advance!!!

[ThomasPowers]

As 6" vises are often used for large projects with a lot of torque on the screw I'd say that screw was NOT at half life but near the end. Replacing the screw/screwbox---you have to do both at the same time! Is the most difficult repair job you can do an a post vise and often costs more than buying another vise in better condition.  (If you have a home machine shop you can do it on the cheap...)

It boils down to cost and need: do you need a 6" post vise?  Is it cheap enough to make rebuilding a possibility? If you will be using it for light duty then it will probably last a long time---but be more of a pain to use. (I have two workbenches with both a 6" and a 4" vise on them so I can use the one needed for the job.  (Lots easier to close a 4" vise using your leg to turn the handle than a 6" vise!)

I recently did a marriage of two 6" vises to get one with a screw/screwbox in great condition and the other with a screw a bit better than that and sold that one on cheap.

It seems to me that the owner is misrepresenting it due to ignorance or salesmanship.  I'd ask him to replace the screw and offer to pay US$100 more for a good clean replacement.

[M.G.]

He was asking 200 for the vise in its current state, and when i started to question the condition of the screw, he started saying stuff like "im in no hurry", "make me an offer" 

Thomas, what would you consider "cheap enough" to rebuild? 

Is there a simple alternative to having a machine shop, like say acme all thread?

[Frosty]

That one's all but shot. Cheap enough to rebuild? Near scrap price for that one to use as parts. I'd walk away and keep looking. My 5" Indian Chief isn't nearly so worn but is hard to open because of the threads having a LITTLE slope. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Look at the threads on vise/vice repair here. They discuss several of the methods.  (Have you priced square threaded rod and nuts in that size?)  Are you very good at welding? Do you care about the end looks?

Cheap enough to rebuild depends on the person and location.  Out here in tool poor NM I would probably be willing to pay US$100 for it if it will open and close and hold and hope to find another vise for another marriage. I don't want to spend my shop time fixing one. Of course I have "enough" post vises and so going cheap is more of a factor. (Shoot I recently found a smaller one at the scrapyard missing the screw and screwbox that I bought for 20 US cents a pound...)

When people want me to set a price I generally tell them that I'll take $25 to haul it off for them...Again; do you need a 6" postvise or is this just "wanting a big vise"?

[M.G.]

Not necessarily wanting a "big" vise, this one just happens to be the cheapest on the list in the two state range im willing to drive. Everything else is more around the 400 or 500 range. 

I probably suck at welding. Its been years. I care more about functionality than I do looks.i did a search for all thread, but wasn't sure what I was looking for. And I skimmed a couple of the repair threads on ifi, but without pictures I was having a tough time getting a read on how labor intensive a job like this would be.

[Frosty]

$400 - $500 is crazy almost Alaska blacksmith tool, asking price crazy. You can buy new for not a lot more. On line lists a 6" leg vise for $485 and in stock. 

Print it out and use it as a bargaining chip, and go look at the vise before spending ANYTHING. Wear can sneak up on you if you use a tool all the time for years. People flipping tools are almost as trustworthy as used car salesmen. If they don't squeal at your counter offer it's too high.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

On-line is generally the most expensive way to buy smithing equipment.  Have you checked the "new" prices?  I see a 5" new postvise for US$365 on one blacksmith supply companies website. Remember you are not buying an "antique" you are buying a used tool to use!

If you are not comfortable thinking about doing a repair you probably won't do it. Why you should be sure of at least minimal usability as it stands.

(Another source of screw/screwbox for the welding/machining disinclined are screw jacks.)

 

[M.G.]

I saw that note about screw jacks in one of the previous threads, i just hadn't gotten too deep into looking yet. 

Definitely not interested in its "antique " qualities. I want usable tools. Not garden decor. There is a nice looking leg vise about 2 hours from me for just under the $400 mark but I haven't reached out to him yet. Because that is just about the cost of a new one. 

The gentelman with the 6" is teasing me with the prospect of "many more old blacksmithing tools" so I may have to make the trip just to see what he has laying around. Maybe toss him a lowball offer if its looking like there are any hidden treasures in the pile.

[ThomasPowers]

I'm still fighting my way out from under a hoard I stumbled across in our small town.  Sold off all the post vises though.  It was a a substantial sum of money for all of it; but when I sell off all the stuff I don't want or need I will have the things I wanted for free!  Selling stuff during the lockdown is a pain though. (The "hoard" included 5 postvises, 3 powerhammers, a 248# PW anvil, cone mandrel, tools, coal forges, post drills, treadle grinders, hand crank blowers,.....) I hope that I will actually make enough over to pay for getting the powerhammer I'm keeping all gussied up.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

If the screw is that worn, the screw box is probably in as bad or worse shape and any real pressure will probably strip it out. Been there and done that when looking at a 4 in vise. The seller also said there was a lot of life in it so I asked if I could tighten it up. He said sure, I put about half as much torque on the handle as it would take to hold stock and sure enough it stripped out. Needless to say the seller was embarrassed and I declined to buy it.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I pay up to $10 per inch of jaw width. My last one was a couple of years ago for $40, a really nice complete Columbian out of a wood shop.

You can make a postvise out a pair of scrap forklift forks. Cut at the elbows and get fabbing.

[M.G.]

So, I drove out to take a look at the aforementioned vise, on my way across his property to take a look at the 6" with the chewed up screw, I had to step over another post vise laying in the dirt this one had 5" ish jaws but had had a couple of holes cut into the jaws so I kept walking to see what I had come to see. After taking a closer look and determining that he was wanting way too much for a non working vise he pricieded to show me 4 or 5 more smaller 4" postvises he had laying about. All of which were basically a pile of parts waiting to be married. Was asking 40bucks each. I was like well thats a pretty good deal if I get all of em and marry em in to one. I think i would have still had to build a spring for the Franken vise idea....sorry this is getting long winded. But..i promise there are pictures coming.. I decided to ask if I could maybe check out the one laying in the dirt back there, he said no problem....

So i pulled the screw, and as it unwound I had to hide my excitement a little, the screw was clean with about 90% thread life left. The box looked pretty good too from what I could see through the grease. And this one was complete. Only hang up was that it had holes cut in the jaws.... still has a clean 3ish inch section in the center of the jaws but definitely has been defaced. He said he would be willing to let it go for a little more than the 6" that needed some serious work.  I told him I would sleep on it and maybe get back to him in a week or so... took a look through his pile of tongs and top tools and hammers. And still walked away with a few treats.... a tiny buffalo forge hand crank blower. Some tongs a  cross peen hammer a flatter and loose handle and a short little 8lbs. strikers sledgehammer. 

But that night I was telling my wife about what I saw that day, and she asked me, of all things.... she asks me "so why didn't you bring it home?" 

I about died. 

But I went back out today and talked him into selling it to me near his price, but he threw in a 12lbs strikers hammer that I need to re handle. 

I figured i can over look the defiled jaws for now, and due to the fact that I am working from a makeshift anvil with no hardie hole or pritchel hole I can do lighter work that calls for bottom tools in the vise. And when the right vise with nice 5" jaws and a blown out box and chewed up screw comes along, I have a match made in heaven. 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

A pretty good haul. Too bad someone bored such a large hole , probably for some specialty work. The smaller hole won't be a problem. If it were mine, I would find a piece of round stock to fit the large hole, split it in half length wise and drill a hole through it. Then drill and tap the jaws to make the round inserts as removable liners.

[M.G.]

Thats a good idea Irondragon. I am gonna clean it up a bit with a wire wheel and wax and re grease it. Then use it as is until it becomes unbearable. But im gonna keep that one in the memory bank for when it comes time. 

[ThomasPowers]

I wouldn't drill and tap but just weld the half sections onto a set of jaw covers to be used as needed.  That last sledge is a rock working tool for masonry work.  It will hit steel though.

The vise looks to be a Columbian: unfaceted legs + short open to the rear screwbox.  Good vices; I own  a few of them and picked up another one last night: 5.25" jaws and stamped 100 on the ski jump on front.   Any markings on the mounting plate?   Columbian used a recessed triangle with a raised C in it.  It would be an earlier vise as their later ones used a U bolt mounting system. (I copy it a lot when buying vises with no mounting brackets.) It was the most I have ever paid for a vise at US$90; but I was buying it from a friend in monetary difficulty for the price they had bought it from me when working and flush.

[M.G.]

Ah, Thomas. Yet another good idea. And this one dosnt require adding any more stress to the jaws. 

I haven't taken a measurement yet,, but im guseeing this is a 5.25" jaw weighing in around 120lbs... I didn't see any markings on it anywhere. But its pretty grungy. Something may show its self when I start working it over with a wire wheel. 

And apparently I'm still new to this game, I may have pId a little more than yourself for this vise. Also what is the ski jump?

[ThomasPowers]

Where it curves out a slight bit on the front and back legs/jaws right over the area the screw/screwbox goes through---like a ski jump....

I have seen weights and dates stamped in that region and I once had a pristine Columbian 4" vise that had the entire stamping (Columbian  Cleveland OH, etc) on the back of the back jaw.  Sold it off as I'm a user not a collector; but am perfectly willing to let collectors support my habit...

Back in the '90's you could buy 4-5" postvises for $20 to $25 dollars in central Ohio; not a rare deal, I think I went through about 20 of them from all over the region.  Buying the *big* ones cheap was the challenge.  Got a Columbian 6.5" vise for $50 from a fellow packing up to leave Quad-State.  Didn't have a mounting bracket but most of mine didn't come with them as I was looking for good shape and cheap!

Of course I considered Ohio to be the "Blacksmiths happy hunting grounds" as it was heavily farmed and industrialized in the 19th century leaving a lot of stuff behind. Back before the bay location still made a huge difference in prices.

Edited July 16, 2020 by ThomasPowers

[M.G.]

Ah, ill keep my eyes out for markings and stamps as I clean it up. Maybe next week or so. 

Anyone have a good method for wax sealing this beast?  Paraffin, beeswax, home brew.....

[ThomasPowers]

Carnuba wax and a warmed vise.

[M.G.]

Like automotive style wax paste? Rub on with a rag...? Or do i need to use a block of it? 

[ThomasPowers]

Use your browser to search: carnauba site:iforgeiron.com    for 44 hits on it.

[M.G.]

Ah right sorry, forgot about that trick. Just finishing my coffee now.

[Frosty]

I use "Trewax" carnuba paste floor and furniture wax. Another excellent brand is "Bowling ally wax" another carnuba paste wax. Carnuba is what they wax bowling allys with, it's the stuff they have to strip with large belt sanders. 

Trewax applied to cup of coffee hot steel melts into a deeply penetrating liquid and fills all the nooks and crannies. Wipe off the excess and it'll be good for years. Any drips will chip, carnuba is brittle, had and tough but brittle. My Soderfors has worn the same coat of Trewax for well better than 25 years, part of that all but outdoors.

Nice vise, I'd probably weld halved round stock to fill the large hole as suggested by Thomas. I'd leave the little one, it'll be more handy than problem. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[M.G.]

Thanks Frosty, I was wondering when you would pop in.

It will be a really good starting point to get me working. I'm at the day job for most of the day, but if I can cut out early ill dip over to the shop and start soaking the bolt and start on the teardown. I havnt shown youguys the best part yet. 

I'll get a couple pictures of the screw and maybe start a new thread as a refurbish thread here in this section, if the mods will allow it.

Thanks again everyone. 

As always a great help to hear from you.