Skullandbonesforge Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 On one side I see some imperfections in the center I think that was periosity from the welds and on the other side there looks like a crack or fold up at the top I noticed towards the end of working with it that the mild steel was getting battered inside of the 5160 to the point where it busted out of the top a bit I’ll upload a few pictures let me know what you all think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 If you used equal portions of mild and 5160 you ended up with a non hardenable billet of only about 0.35 carbon, so dont bother to use it for a blade, only the hardware, looks good tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 22 hours ago, Skullandbonesforge said: what you all think Looks like it's a solid forge weld, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullandbonesforge Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 Thank you guys for the helpful feedback so I found half got it cut and stacked it again attempting to go from 4 layers to 8 I mostly got it I see a small crack or line at the top on one side other then that it looks solid what do you all think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 Looks pretty solid to me. That line looks like one place the weld didn't take, you may be able to grind it out depending on how deep it goes. However, if you're just using it for something decorative, it shouldn't be a problem. Just remember where that spot is and keep it away from anything critical. As Steve mentioned, the billet as it stands wont be suitable for a blade, but if you sandwich a piece of 5160 between your layered billet you could probably make a suitable blade with it. Just be careful to work on both sides evenly so your harden-able steel stays centered and forms the working edge. I'm not sure what pattern 5160 and mild will make, but judging from your pictures it looks like you'll have something there. I'd say pass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 Cutting the ends off of billets is also pretty common to get rid of end cruft. I sometimes save them and forge them into hammer wedges for when I do a special handle. (Got some piece of Ipe from a marquetry floor I use for the wooden wedges too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullandbonesforge Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 Thank you guys again so much for all the insight here’s how she turned out 8 layers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Looks good, looking forward to seeing what it turns into! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 I have a secret stash of the old black diamond files that were 1.2% C that I use to "juice up" billets where the total carbon content would be below that for a good blade without some extra "C" to diffuse through it. As mentioned; if you have a billet where you like the pattern but are unsure of the hardenability; doing a san mai with a good blade steel in the center can get you a blade both pretty and with good edge holding properties. (My camp knife was done that way as the "billet I was playing around with was the spiral control cables---came out well; but I didn't think the C was high enough so an old nicholson file made the center layer. It's the one I used to shave a sliver off a Titanium blade to show people tht plain steel made a better blade than *Titanium*! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullandbonesforge Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 On 7/6/2020 at 11:11 AM, ThomasPowers said: Cutting the ends off of billets is also pretty common to get rid of end cruft. I sometimes save them and forge them into hammer wedges Dang that’s a great idea I love the fact that almost nothing is ever scrap and can be reused On 7/7/2020 at 10:20 AM, ThomasPowers said: I have a secret stash of the old black diamond files that were 1.2% C that I use to "juice up" billets where the total carbon content would be below that for a good blade without some extra "C" to diffuse through it. That’s pretty wild I was watching a destructive test on a titanium blade today and to think you made steel to shave that blows my mind I love this stuff wanna get more into titanium but I need my buddy to contact his old forge to see if we could come in and use the power hammer seeing as the patent for Timascus is up in only three years I wanna try and learn more about forging it that way in three years I’ll have maybe enough practice with how the metal moves to try some Timascus I know for a greenhorn at this whole blacksmith/bladesmithing it’s a crack pot idea but the actual blacksmith who told me it was impossible to forge weld by hand is also eating “most” of his words right now can’t wait to keep playing around in this trade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 " I love the fact that almost nothing is ever scrap and can be reused" You are saving the scale that comes off the steel for smelting in a bloomery furnace, right? High grade magnetite ore---like the Japanese black iron sand... As for the destructive test---was it an edge holding test? I don't understand the "Not possible to forge weld by hand" as folks have been doing it for around 3000 years now by hand. How do they think the viking/Frankish swords were made? The Japanese Katanas and Javanese Kris's? Not to mention ALL the welding done before gas & electric welding came along! (And just the making and using of real wrought iron used a LOT of forge welding done by hand until the figured out how to power it up.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 timascus is a trade name for one groups pattern welded titanium, go ahead and make PW Titanium yourself, they cant patient pattern welding because PW has been around long enough to prove its not a new concept. Also i have been making all my PW steels by hand for over 20 years. I dont own a press or a power hamer, and I have welded some weird things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullandbonesforge Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said: don't understand the "Not possible to forge weld by hand" as folks have been doing it for around 3000 years now by hand. How do they think the viking/Frankish swords were made? The Japanese Katanas and Javanese Kris's? Not to mention ALL the welding done before gas & electric welding came along! That was my thinking Aswell he had personally tried it a few times with no success and thought me crazy for having very little experience and wanting to try it It was quite a nice feeling to see him come over and go you crazy xxxxxxxxx it looks solid Mod note: lots of editing and 'attention" given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Not sure why you quoted me there as your response didn't really pertain to my earlier post. You may want to remove the unnecessary quotes before the mods do. Maybe the cursing too. That being said, There is a good feeling that comes with a good weld. Nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Hows your BG Frosty? I'm the one that usually gets twitted for running people off.. BG should be good Thomas. Did I run someone off? . . . I - DON'T - THINK - SO! Mr. forum rules are for people who read them, excessive quotes and pointless remarks is back. Even better directly following Steve's contribution with enough pointless quotes he didn't understand IF he actually read them. Think SOMEONE in admin will have a word? Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Yup; there is a whole lot of "I can't do it so it must be impossible to do." out there in the world. How many times have I heard folks telling new people that "You can't forge weld in a propane forge, it doesn't get hot enough"? I point out that a lot of the professional damascus bladesmiths *only* use propane forges like the good Dr JPH here! People don't like to say "I can't forge weld in *my* propane forge, it's a problem with *my* forge or techniques." (I *don't* weld in my propane forge but I have accidentally melted steel in it before.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 OH come ON Thomas, EVERYBODY knows you can weld in a blown propane forge, it's the Venturi burner forges you can't weld in! How about the people who ask a question and say they can't do it over and over. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Well it's folks that ask and then fight against the answers that annoy me. Especially the "yes; buts". "Oh I want to forge but it costs too much." Here's how to build a forge for *nothing*! "Yes but I can't dig a hole in the ground or put dirt in a discarded gas grill or build a JABOD or any of the other simple cheap ways" "I can't find/use coal" Charcoal has been used around 3 times as long; "Yes; But it's not traditional!" (SAY WHAT?) "I can't afford a London pattern anvil" Here's how to find and use an improvised anvil. "Yes but I have to have a London Pattern anvil or it's not real blacksmithing!" And so on. Given a problem and provided a simple cheap work around; they can't do it. I've learned that the best thing you can do for a "Yes; But" is to agree with them after the first "Yes; But", commiserate and get on to working with folks that you give them the barest hint and they take off like they switched in their afterburner. Folks tell me they can't smith because they live in an apartment; I tell them about Patrick who started smithing living in a dorm room! (He had issues keeping roomates as I recall...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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