Chris C Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 Okay. The vision of that didn't even come up in my mind. Right now it can't roll. Its a square blank that tapers up to the round face. It's got a 5/8" bar welded to the butt end of the head so I can hold it firmly with my 5/8" bolt jaw tongs. Looks like a Tulip on a stem! Works great. I'm continuing to forge on the square sides so I can lengthen it before punching and drifting a hole for the handle. I'll be beating on it some more tomorrow. A flatter would be nice to have and I'm going to take Frosty's lead and see if I can find some 1/2" plate at the scrap yard from which to make one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 1 hour ago, rockstar.esq said: I believe Frosty is suggesting round stock to be used as a wire wrapped handle on a stubby flatter like you might see in use under power hammers. BINGO! Thank you. My bad I didn't think to say small round like 1/4" or such for a handle. I don't know what's wrong with you guys it was perfectly clear in my head! The inertia of top tooling and it's effect on how much work is done to the piece is right on as well. Only make the flatter thick enough it doesn't deform under the hammer, 3/4" is probable plenty and 1" probably not too much. WOW DHarris, who's mental images are you looking at! That isn't "probably wrong" it's not within view of the ball park! Chris: How large a drill bit do you think Rockstar is talking about? 1/8" is plenty. Force ALWAYS takes the path of least resistance, a punch or slitting chisel HAS to follow a drill hole, 3 assures your hammer eye is aligned properly. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 Have to admit I was envisioning the total width of the hole and then just three holes drilled in line. Wasn't think of 1/4" drill. I wouldn't lose much weight with a couple 1/4" holes through the head and, you're right, it would make sure I wouldn't drift (no pun intended) off line. Might consider that................if I ever get this thing stretched out. Think if I'd "tell a lie" it would grow in length????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Punch and drift the hammer eye BEFORE you spend time forging the hammer, that way if it goes south on you, you haven't spent a bunch of time on a paper weight. I always do the eye's first. That way you won't be trying to punch something laying at an angle towards the face either. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 Okay, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donal Harris Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Frosty, it is quite obvious you interpreted your vision wrong. Chris, once you punch the eye, holding the head is easy with a set of hammer tongs. I have been working on a raven’s head war hammer off and on for the past several months. When I asked Korney how to hold it, he gave me a very simple set of hammer tongs. It was really amazing how securely you can hold the head while not squeezing much at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 DRATS, not again! You bet Chris, your next hammer will go smooth as butter. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Good Morning Chris, When you punch the Handle Hole, the metal will move and you will gain length as well as more material in height for your Handle Hole. Either the cheeks bulge out, or the material bulges up and down to give you a more rounded hammer head. You aren't taking material away, it is just changing location. Remember, Location Location Location. The grace is in the relocation!! Make the design in Play-Doh first, you will see what Eye mean. There are many little things, that make a big difference. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Actually when you punch a hole you lose material. When you slit and drift a hole you do not lose material. Also force follows the path of least resistance, so the cheeks thin out, not the other way around unless your cheeks are thickier than the rest of your hammer. Lol, little things do make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I have a number of flatters and was using several of them last Sunday to even out the tong pivot section of the lug wrench tongs I'm working on. Anyway several of them have no projection, just a square flat end to a set hammer. Very handy when the part you need to flatten isn't real large. I used a cheese fuller to blend in the transitions. All done with my screwpress. I also have a large commercially made fuller that projects quite a bit and pretty much requires using a power hammer as it's too big a contact area to work without a really big sledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 Well, well, well, what a day. Just go ahead and laugh at me now and get it over with! Fired up the gasser today and started back at lengthening my hammer head. Got another 1/4" out of it and I'm happy. Figured by the time I stretched it with the handle hole it ought to be about right. So I started with the punch and drift. Took Frosty's advice and drilled two 1/4" holes on the center line and went to work with the punch and drift. I've been working on it for several hours. Finally got the drift to a point it's "almost" where I want it. But I noticed a crack in the corner of the hole. Doesn't go all the way down the side of the head.........just about a quarter of an inch on the side. I think I know what happened, so I'm not terribly surprised. Let me "splain". I re-welded the 5/8" bar on the butt end of the head this morning before starting. After a while, I got tired of messing with the long rod and cut all but about 2" of it off. (lots easier to hold with the tongs) When I started the punch and drift part of the "journey", the head slipped off the anvil and of all the places in the shop for it to land, it landed right in the can full of water I'd placed near the bottom of the anvil stand in preparation for cooling my punch and drift. Yup, right in the coffee can of cold water and "stub" end down!!! I finally got the tongs to grip the head well enough to pull it out. (made me think of a Keystone Cops movie trying to get it out!) In hind sight, I should have kicked the can over so it wouldn't have been in the water as long. I'm afraid it hardened the head some. I should have heated the head up and put it back in the vermiculite over night to slowly cool back down before continuing......(yes?).....but I didn't think of that until just a few minutes ago. I went back into the heat and started back with the heating and punching. If I'd let it cool down over night, I don't think it would have cracked. Am I correct in my thinking? If nothing else, I'm learning a whole lot of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 Upon closer inspection, it's NOT a crack after all! When I was shortening the head with the bandsaw the other day, I started a cut and changed my mind. Figured the tiny little cut would close up with hammering...............................but it didn't. I think it will close up when I cut the stub off and hammer the end flat. Wondering if I should just forget it or try and forge weld it closed? Hmmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Grind or file it to a smooth transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Drilling THREE pilot holes was Rockstar's suggestion, I just explained how they work. Going to put the water somewhere else next time? I keep it on a table a little higher than the anvil and covered unless I'm using it at the time. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 It seems that once higher carbon steels lose their magnetic attraction they gain a STRONG attraction to water! I have seen where a friend was working his then wife through making a knife at his forge. With the tongs not gripping it and her not holding flat on the anvil, it managed to flip across the anvil, past his ear, bounce off the tree behind him and go past his ear again and across the anvil and drop in a bucket of water---where it shattered. To do that on purpose would have taken *weeks* of practice and lots of OSHA violations... Since I like working with higher carbon steels I tend to use high alloy tooling (H-13, S-7) and ban water from the smithy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Last time I flung something into the quench tank, it popped a hole in the bottom of it. Fortunately, I had another Turkey fryer pot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 Okay, I only took 2/3 of Rockstar's suggestion. I'll definitely place the cooling bucket somewhere else next time, Frosty. Thomas, I'll be mindful of the higher carbon steel's magnetic attraction to water, for sure. Wasn't aware of that. Somebody should have warned me.............I'm a newbie, ya know! Am I supposed to learn everything the hard way????? Was an interesting day, for sure. The hammer head is sitting in vermiculite until I go after it next. I'm re-purposing a 2 1/2 pound engineers hammer head into a double ended diagonal cross peen. It was taking forever and then it hit me I'd not annealed the head before starting. No need in ruining sanding belts. I'll toss the head in the forge tomorrow when I continue working on my Dog's Head hammer and take some hardness out of it so I can accomplish more with less! On a side note: I cut one of the "spikes" off a pick axe I picked up at a flea market. Straightened it out and ground it smooth on my new 2x72 belt grinder. I put about an 1/8" radius on all 4 corners and that's what I'm using to drift my handle hole in the hammer head I'm working on. It's going to end up being a rectangular handle hole. I don't know if that's a good thing or not, but it is what it is. Thinking back, I should have put a larger radius on the corners. Probably should make a better drift for hammer heads, huh? One thing I know for sure is it's far too short. It was getting to where my leather glove was catching on fire because I was too close to the hot hammer head. Also need to find a piece at the scrap yard that has a ready made hole because my Hardy hole is going to be too small to use with the drift. (guess this is one of those times I need a swage block with some holes in it, right Don? Right Thomas? Tired of rambling. Headed for the shower and then dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Chris C said: Am I supposed to learn everything the hard way????? Yep, that way less likely to forget it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 T'ain't fair, I tell ya, jus t'ain't fair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 I grew up attending the school of hard knocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 I know what you mean, IFC, I know what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Shoot; I'll give you a freebie: "Don't grab hot steel with your bare hand!" Feel better now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 Only took me a couple of times at the forge during our Thursday night groups to learn how long steel stays hot.............even on a concrete floor. I may be slow, but not dumb.............I don't think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Took me one good time of grabbing a black horseshoe and blistering two fingers and thumb and the web in between them to learn that the hard way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 You're obviously a quicker learner than I CGL. Of course I never blistered anything. Just didn't take me long to figure out what I'd picked up was far too hot to hold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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