Jump to content
I Forge Iron

Recommended Posts

Hey All,

I've done a bit of reading into electrolysis and gassifiers for a more cost effective way to forge. Since the main cost of running a forge is the fuel I'm trying to cut down on that, especially being on a limited income. From my relatively limited research I've concluded that a gassifier is much more practical and most-likely safer then electrolysis, however there may be some potential to automate fuel production with electrolysis that a gassifier doesn't have the feasibility of doing. I really like the idea of hooking my forge up to a water line and never having to go out for propane again. Going back on topic, I've done some reading on the forums in regards to gassifiers and it appears that a cleaning system (ie radiator and cyclone containers) aren't nessisary for a gassifier with the intention of powering a forge because water vapor and tar don't matter like they would in a combustion engine. If I do build it I plan to run it off of wood chips because I have about a lifetime supply of them, save them decomposing. However not having prototyped anything yet I would like to hear people's opinions who are a whole lot older and wiser than mine. Is this feasible and if it is what are the obstacles in building and using this contraption that I should be aware of?

Thanks

-Will

Link to post
Share on other sites

Folks have been forging with charcoal for 3000 years. If you have a supply of woodchips I'd build an indirect charcoal maker rather than pay for electricity, gas storage, compression, tune-able forge burner, etc.

Would all that be cheaper than the electric bill for an induction forge?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Folks have been forging with charcoal for 3000 years. If you have a supply of woodchips I'd build an indirect charcoal maker rather than pay for electricity, gas storage, compression, tune-able forge burner, etc.

Would all that be cheaper than the electric bill for an induction forge?

Yeah my thinking wasn't actually to compress any of the output gasses instead feed them directly into a forge. That's my main reason for not using an electrolyzer because compressing the hydrogen and oxygen and it is a pain to separate them. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to you tube videos but there people who have run a gassifier straight into a combustion engine. I would do similar but into a ribbon burner (maybe naturally aspirated?). I don't have a covered shop so I can't really use solid fuel as I'm in Washington and we get rain every other day. In addition I like the freedom of not having to manage a fire (specifically not having to worry about things burning up). I've also only ever used gas forges and while I would like to build a solid fuel forge at some point, not until I've developed most of my tooling and such. In short I prefer the convenience of a gas forge.

Link to post
Share on other sites

How will you meter the gas or do you expect to be fiddling with the burners all the time? I doubt you can get a steady state gas output?? Low pressure so you will need a blower.

Both charcoal and gas forges put out CO and both need lots of ventilation. (I have a solid fuel forge and a gas forge about a yard apart with a simple chimney for the solid fuel and 10' walls and 2 10' x 10' roll up doors and open gables for the gasser.)

How much forging do you expect to do and is your goal to spend time forging or spend time tinkering with a new way to heat a forge?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Its definitely a rough idea. My thought was to use a ribbon burner so a blower won't be an issue anyways. As for controlling gas input I haven't had the oppertunity to test one and see how consistent the gas output is. However assuming it is relatively stable my thought would be to use a t with a valve on one of them so that I can control how much goes into the forge and then the rest will get burned off potentially stored if that is a feasible option. I work outside anyways which is part of the reason I'm avoiding solid fuel. Also I'm partially just having fun with the idea and partially I'm legitimately trying to save myself time and money in the long run.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never tried to run a forge on wood gas.  However, at one point I had access to a nearly unlimited supply of used oil.  Like you I thought I should take advantage of the potential fuel savings, and so I embarked on building a forge and burner for the fuel.  I was trying to do this as cheaply as possible, so I made my own siphon nozzle and burner and even my own refractory for the forge.  Unless you really want me to do so I won't go into all the details, but suffice it to say I now use a propane forge most of the time and I don't really regret switching. I do wish I had back the time and money I spent building the oil burning setup though.

The short version is I spent about as much time constantly tinkering with the fuel and air supplies as I did hitting hot metal.  YMMV, but in some ways your idea seems like it has even more variables and obstacles to overcome.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My ribbon burner uses a blower as does all of them I have seen or heard about before the NARB came along fairly recently.  The NARB makes use of high pressure propane; so you going to be compressing that gas?  The blown ribbon burner can use low pressure gas, like natural gas for home heating delivery. (Blowers are much simpler than gas compressors!)

Figuring out a new way to do things is a great way to save time and money for the *next* person; but seldom for the initial person.

I keep waiting for Frosty or Mikey to weigh in here; but they may be holding back and just shaking their heads sadly.  I just use the burners others have already done the experimentation on to get them working right. (My first gas forge was a blown burner; the second was NA and after 20+ years using it, it is going to Frosty T burners---hooking up the propane, I hope, this weekend if I can get the fittings and then will start the tuning process!)  Which is why I asked what your goal was.  Usually when I start up the forge I work on a "pay for the propane item" and a "project item".  As a simple S hook can pay for hours of propane it's  not much overhead.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm definitely going into this knowing its rather uncharted territory, however the worst I end up with is a lesson learned or a working gassifier that just can't power a forge. I'm still in school and especially during the quarantine I have a surplus of time, however I appreciate the warning.

Hey Thomas,

Yeah I haven't looked into a narb ribbon burner, and I definitely don't plan on compressing the gas. I have some time on my hands and a new mig welder so I'm honestly partially just looking for a project. I completely understand using whats tried and true and I'm sure it is more efficient in the long run however I think there is some value in at least trying out other things. And looking at some simple designs they're just some black iron pipe and scrap metal which doesn't really cost much. At worst I lose a few hours and gain some experience fabricating something interesting. My sense of propane cost is definitely also distorted because my forge is somehow inefficient, as such I only get maybe 4-5 hours out of a 20lb tank despite using a forced air burner. Regardless of this project I will most-likely build a new propane forge soon, once I have a 220 circuit installed for the welder. Would you mind explaining why the old timers would be frustrated with my questions? I tried my best to articulate my idea, granted I'm still new to the forum so I'm not yet familiar with its culture. I maybe should have prefaced this post that I'm still very young and wide-eyed with too much time as well as enthusiasm on my hands which definitely gets me into trouble. Anyways thanks for putting up with me!

Link to post
Share on other sites

For me it's usually frustration with people wanting to go their own way---but then wanting other people to deal with the issues they run into. The idea being that if you are knowledgeable enough to know how to design something you shouldn't need others to fix it.  Sort of why I don't design burners. I know I don't know enough to do it correctly.

The other thing is tied up with RAH's quote  “Time is your total capital, and the minutes of your life are painfully few.”  I feel that the folks who are really up on burner design spend way too much time answering questions from people who didn't do the necessary research to start with. Some of us are on the downhill slope of life and time becomes more precious to us.

Now there are folks who just love to tinker with things and the tinkering is more the goal than possibly the using.  Valuable folks that end up paving the path for others at their own expense.  I'm sort of trying to figure out where you fit in the spectrum...

Where are you at in your schooling?  We have had people here from grade school through post-Doc.  Some suggestions may work better for folks of legal age; others for younger people. (example: suggesting someone mow lawns to buy equipment works a lot better for a High school student than a Post Doc with a young family to take care of.) 

You may notice that while we may suggest that different ways may be better if you want to get forging sooner; nobody is saying it can't be made to work!

And remember; these are all *my* opinions and have no special weighting against the opinions of others, other than the weighting others may give to them. (Need the grammar hammer to pound that sentence out...)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say I'm in the middle of the spectrum. In my mind even if this doesn't work out to be useful for smithing it is still a cool contraption that I was able to learn from by building. I definitively understand the frustration of answering the same question over and over again, I did look around the forum and the one page I found quickly became diverted to a safety discussion because the person was using galvanized metal in his build. As such I couldn't find any comprehensive information on it (which is also why I felt comfortable asking) and that is part of the reason I'm so curious about it. . To me its uncharted territory with potential. However if it doesn't work out I'm more than happy to go use a ribbon burner forge, they really are great little units. I'm 17 taking collage classes through an education arrangement. I spend most of my time either doing school or helping on the farm, and my parents can't really afford to pay me so I work pro bono so to speak. I'll get a chunk of change or a new toy every once in a while when they can afford it. Between those two I don't think I have enough time for a traditional job.

In addition I consider doing these projects kind of an investment in my education, so sooner I learn how to say fabricate, weld, or any piece of how the world works the more time I'll have to make a metaphorical profit off of it. Really a return on investment. The sooner one knows how to do electrical the less times they have to pay for an electrician. Thats my mentality anyways. I maybe should have made more clear I have already built a ribbon burner forge following Wayne Coe's instructions however it being my first time applying metal fabrication practices and welding it hasn't turned out too pretty, however it is plenty serviceable and I'm more then capable of forging with it. If it wasn't for it being such a gas hog I would have no desire to build a new forge. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like ideas, reminds me of being a kid myself. I kept getting shot down by OLD folks who knew and experimenting anyway. My friends often went along with me and I them, usually down in flames, happily not UP in flames. Not griping it's all part of the learning curve. I stopped doing many experiments in my early 20s though I'd started doing better research, libraries are free or were. 

Tell us how much research OTHER THAN youtube have you done about Brown's gas? An old friend of mine was always going on about building or converting his car to a Brown's gas engine so he could drive on water. That was in the mid 70's haven't seen a single verified example of more than a semi successful test engine. Each sort of semi maybe successful examples wouldn't produce enough power to generate enough fuel to keep running. Most ran for a couple seconds. 

Of course I haven't looked since the internet went public and I haven't found one in the reading I've done before replying. If a Brown's gas engine actually worked it'd be smeared all over the news, internet, etc. Every environmental outfit would be DEMANDING the entire world convert. 

Okay, that's the old fart in my nodding my head at an idea that is unsupported by current: experience, tech or science. Can't get more energy OUT than it requires you put in.

A ribbon burner built to the plans by John Emerling, as seen in ABANA magazines and most currently Wayne's site is a major fuel hog. Have you watched the videos? Every one I've seen is blowing flames 3'+ out the openings. Those flames are unburned propane that has been blown through and out of the forge before it can burn. Can you imagine why it's really inefficient?

I'm not dissing John I don't believe anybody was building ribbon burners when he developed one that worked, he's a great guy I count him as a friend. Guys are making T burners that work better than the one I came up with all the time and it makes me happy. Honest I'm pleased as punch.

If you really want a ribbon build a NARB. Forget Brown's gas it's mostly a myth hunt, it's NEVER performed as imagined and can't be stored safely, it is a stoichiometric burn waiting for a source of ignition. If you separate them then it's not Brown's gas you might as well use a cathode, anode generator. You can compress either but good luck keeping the hydrogen from leaking away quick time. Look up the prices for compressed hydrogen valves and fittings. 

All that isn't to put you off tinkering Willem, I'm only hoping to steer you off a proven loser fuel gas. Honest, I've never seen anywhere that Brown's gas does NOT take more electricity to separate than is recoverable using it as fuel.

If you want to generate your own fuel look into methane reactors, I really like the ones used in India and if I had enough organic waste available years ago I might have a house heated and powered by an anaerobic methane generator now. I don't recall what they're called but the methane reactor I wanted to build involves a two section tank. The lower half open on top, the top half open on the bottom and slips into the bottom half. The tank is filled nearly full of water. Organic wastes are fed in through a P trap or lock, fecal matter is high energy food for the reactor but once charged (or should I have said BUTT charged?) almost any organic material works though some better than others. Anyway, once bacterial action gets going methane will float the top half of the tank and can be tapped for use. 

There is a lot about filtering for septic tank smell and other gasses but I don't know how necessary it is to just produce fuel gas for: forging, heating and running a generator. I think the generator would be most sensitive but maybe not. When I was looking into them they weren't filtering in India and they were plumbing villages with on site generated methane. Of course the whole village brought their human and animal waste to be processed. What was taken out was outstanding fertilizer without a significant bacteria count it wasn't sanitary but it was like a hospital operating room compared to what the ground around the village everybody used for a toilet was like. 

So, Hopefully I've shot down the idea of wasting time on Brown's gas for anything and replaced it with something to tinker with that might do the whole farm some good. Do you have lots of organic waste? A few pigs or cattle aught to power lots but if you have lots of stock.   :D

It's always griped me when people tell me NO but have nothing better to offer. Hopefully that idea is still something to put a gleam in a young man's eyes.

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey frosty,

We recently sent about half the herd off to butcher (the story of getting them in that God forsaken trailer is something I'll spare you with) but we still have about 12 head or so left. Honestly I haven't counted lately. I'll definitely look into that methane method of producing fuel. At the very least I'll be able to keep the boots warm in the winter! I appreciate you taking the time to give such a thoughtful response so thank you! I definitely need to rebuild the forge for a multitude of reasons so I'll go look into a narb burner. You did definitely hit the nail on the head though, I do most of my "research" through youtube. I choose to blame it on it being a symptom of my generation, whether or not thats accurate though is another question...

I don't mean to beat a dead horse by sharing this but you bringing up your friend and his quest for a brown's gas did make me think of this video https://youtu.be/X3KipK49v7g?t=5704. I don't have enough mechanical know how to tell whether or not he is full of it or not however to my untrained eye it looks legitimate. Again I don't mean to disregard your advice I'm definitely going down the narb route, I just thought you might find this interesting.

-Will

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2020 at 7:01 PM, Frosty said:

 

Tell us how much research OTHER THAN youtube have you done about Brown's gas?

So, Hopefully I've shot down the idea of wasting time on Brown's gas for anything and replaced it with something to tinker with that might do the whole farm some good. Do you have lots of organic waste? A few pigs or cattle aught to power lots but if you have lots of stock.   :D

Frosty a LOT of people are using browns gas to supplement the gas, especially diesel, in engines to get better power, milage and better emissions. The only one I know of who successfully ran on water alone was Stan Mayer(not sure that I spelt dat right) and his invention was disappeared....if ya get my meaning. Also, any technology that threatens the oil companies profits in a real way will be suppressed. They have mo money than the climate folks. I know someone that somehow ended up with an experimental fuel injection system on a mustang they bought and made the mistake of mentioning that they were getting 46 mpg (v8) on the highway when they took it to a ford dealer for like the 5th oil change. The dealership did him a solid and replaced the fuel system completely free of charge! Back to 16 to 18 mpg for him. I think the manufacturers and the oil companies are kinda tight. 

Anyway I built a browns gas (aka hho) generator for my f150 and saw 5-8 mpg gains. Also, much more power. Do a lot of mountain highway driving and many of the up grades she stoped down shifting due to less throttle be needed. 

You will need a large generator to use hho. They sell commercial torches that use it. Willem you will have to do a lot, I mean a lot of fabrication to construct one. It can all be done with simple power tools tho. The hard part is going to be finding all the stainless steel on what sounds to be no budget. 

Edited by Mod30
trim excessive quote
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have only a couple things to add to the above responses...

Willem, one reason you might not be getting fuel economy on your forge is your 20lb tank- is the same reason I wasnt getting time out of mine. The 20 pounders have an overflow restriction valve in them. They start to get cold and frost up pretty quickly. I'd lose pressure, and forge temperature after about an hour of use with mine. I followed the advice of several smiths here- and upgraded to a 100lb tank. No valve, no more frosting up, and have never looked back. I still haven't run low on pressure or gas yet. I run a forced air burner, usually at around 2-5 psi.

Secondly, for your age- you present to be very well spoken, a very clear communicator, and polite young man. It's a rare trait these days. Keep it. Add hard work and humility to the mix, and you'll find you go far sir.

Looking forward to seeing some of your work as you go along!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Welsh thank you for the kind words, it means a lot. Given what you just said I will defiantly upgrade to a higher volume tank. I actually called my local cenex a while ago and talked to them about the tank freezing issue,  however it was as I was first figuring out ribbon burners, at the time I had yet to install a blast gate on the airflow and was having a hard time getting the forge up to temp at 30 psi. When I asked how I could stop my tank from freezing they essentially said I would have to get a massive tank. Well one glued together osb and plywood blast gate later and the forge runs like a beauty. I think if you hadn't pointed this out to me I wouldn't have ever known because I had already researched it (not well enough) and came to the conclusion is was just the way the darned tanks worked, so I owe you big time.

-Will

Link to post
Share on other sites

Re 20# propane tanks freezing up when used too quickly:  Back in my geologist days I was sent to sit on an oil well drilling operation outside of Beach, ND for the month of January.  It never cracked zero for the whole month I was there.  It was typically about -20 to -30 degrees F. at night and would get up to about -10 to -5 degrees F. during the day.  We had problems with heating the trailer we were in because the vapor temperature of propane is -44 degrees F. and the furnace was drawing enough to cool the tank below that at night.  We ended up wrapping the propane tanks with plumbing heat tape and then with fiberglass insulation.  It worked very well and we didn't have the tanks freezing up again.  On our cars we had to have both a crankcase heater to keep the oil warm and a battery heater so that there would be enough juice to crank the starter.

The freezing problem seems to be a feature of 20# propane tanks.  My 40# tank does not have that problem.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Link to post
Share on other sites

George; who were you working for back then?  I spent my mudlogging days in the deep Anadarko basin in Oklahoma; got cold enough for me! (Hot enough too; probably good training for the afterlife...)

I don't think information can be squelched very well anymore---shoot we can't even get rid of proven false information on the internet!   Willem, (funny, I go by Wilelm the smith in the SCA), have you had any thermodynamics yet?  There are a few rules that have been translated as:

You can't win. (You can't get more energy out of a system than goes into it.)

You can't tie. (You can't get as much energy out of a system as you put into it.)

You gotta play the game. (No escape from increasing entropy.)

Anytime someone makes a claim that violates these rules; they are generally not taking all the factors into consideration; or are just plain wrong.  There is a saying in science that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" (Sagan Standard). Anecdotal evidence seldom reaches that level. (See also Hitchen's Razor.)

Now the methane generator, especially with an "on site" fuel supply has been worked out extensively---especially in India. I remember reading a report about them using a methane generator to fill truck innertubes that then ran gas stoves for cooking. (One of the virtues over burning the manure to produce heat to cook with is that you do end up with fertilizer to use rather than just ashes and smell.) 

As for being paid: do you pay for the housing and food you get?  If not you are just getting "payment in kind" for your work.  Once you have to make the rent/utilities/food bills every month we generally learn how good we had it while still living at home!  It's hard work on a Farm; my Father was the first person in his family to even have a High School degree and the kinfolk have generally fought tooth and nail for generations to get off small subsistence Ozark hill farms. (And laughed hysterically at the back to the land movement of people wanting to go back to such small subsistence farms...)

Good luck with your tinkering and please let us know what you figure out!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Irondragon I did do a few google searches before posting I found this which is part of what fueled my enthusiasm, in hindsight I think the title of my post was misleading when I talked about brown gas I meant any gas that is produced from pyrolosis or electrolysis (my excitement caused me to put the cart before the horse so to speak). This image seems to be a working concept from what I understand. The post if fairly old so I have no clue if it was ever refined. But that was my general idea for a forge. After reading about frosty's narb burners I wonder if it could be made to work with one. Although to my understanding it will need higher pressure for the venturi effect and as such needs compressing which is a whole 'nother can of worms. 

 

Thomas I have not taken any formal thermodynamics coarse but I am however familiar with the law of conservation of mass (if thats the right one). To my understanding a gassifier or electrolyzer works much like splitting an atom in terms of getting energy. The energy is there to burn we just have to have the proper means of access it. So to apply that understanding to the rules you just outlined we get more usable energy out of say a gassifier then we put in because the energy is stored within the wood and therefore not acessesible to us. It seems like we get more energy out because piece of wood doesn't get very hot however the wood gas that is lit does. In terms of actual forging applications I did hear mention that it is hard to control how reducing the flame is which wood lead me to believe that it is more effective for casting then forging. With all that said I hope that makes enough sense, I'm trying to draw a distinction that I'm having a rather hard time articulating. And don't get me wrong I'm not arguing the laws of thermodynamics! As an interesting side note people have been able to make perpetual motion machines, they just don't break the laws of physics because as soon as resistance is introduced to the system they slow down. This is all done with super-fluids near zero kelvin. For now though Frosty has setting me straight on making a NARB burner, the tinkering will have to wait.

 

Setting aside that tangent and to answer your question about my living situation, I am fortunate enough to still live with my family so I don't have to pay for living expenses. Most of my spare income goes to tools or video games (you didn't hear that from me). I call it a farm partially out of wishful thinking and partially out of habit. Both my parents are city slickers but when they had me they ended up moving to a farm and starting a dairy + creamery. Long story short that business ended up going under because our main buyer shifted their business model but we have managed to hold onto the farm by starting a wedding business. We have a big old barn that's in amazing shape because all it was ever used for previously to us was hay. As a side note we're starting to grow some dahlias to sell via the wedding venue and a cafe we're putting in the ground floor of the barn. I'll definitely look into making fertilizer from our cow dung though, with any luck I'll end up with some gas for the forge too! Your suggestion for an opportunity to make free fertilizer really couldn't have come at a better time. Now all I have to do is convince my pap that its a good idea.

dasifier1.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no such thing as a true perpetual motion machine, as that would indeed violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

In the context of this discussion it's worth pointing out that it takes more energy to separate the hydrogen and oxygen atoms from water molecules than you can get from recombining (burning) them.  Only if you have excess energy that is being wasted anyway which can instead be harnessed for electrolysis does it make sense to try to develop something in that area.   For some reactions catalysts can help reduce the energy required, but it's still a net energy loss.

You cannot get more energy out than is put into a system.  When we burn coal, wood, propane or other hydrocarbons we are effectively releasing energy from the sun that has been stored in various forms.  It is still true that more energy was required to create the substance than we can get out of burning it - even if we had 100% efficiency, which is impossible to even come close to in forging applications.

It can seem like we get more energy sometimes though.  Something that took a small amount of energy per day for thousands of years to form can be spectacular when all of that stored energy is released in a handful of seconds.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I understand that. My point was only that for all intensive purposes we can get more energy out of a system then we (the humans) had to invest. It doesn't break the laws of thermodynamics because the energy was put there by other means (nature). Although I think we're on the same page on that. You might find this video about frictionless fluids interesting. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You can find them. My dad offered me one free a year or so ago- and having no use then I declined like an idiot.

On getting into forging, I soon realized the need for one and started looking. I live out in the "country", and coming home about a week after I started looking- found two for sale by the roadside. $120 for both was a great deal. Still in certification range.

20200516_084904.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

David AZ: No need to quote long messages and draw the ire of Admin. you can highlight the sentence of paragraph you wish to comment on and a window with "quote selection" will appear select it and it'll  be copied with cite info.

It's funny how all the guys who claim they have a brown's gas generator that got great mileage have had them stolen and replace with stock injection systems. The first time I heard of brown's gas systems were on carbureted engines. Some ran on water, others got astounding mileage but they were mysteriously removed and replaced by stock carbs. The originator claimed to have an engine that ran off water but could never demonstrate it, later claimed it was destroyed by a jealous inventor so some such.

Liquid helium 4 is way cool stuff Willem. Another head shaking property is two streams of liquid h4 can pass through a pipe in opposite directions without interfering. Like the guy in the video said, super fluids are like quantum mechanics made visible. 

It makes sense even if humans can't make sense of it. 

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some 10 or 15 years back I was peripherally involved in a methane reclamation system which used waste streams from grape, other fruit and vegetable pulp produced by the wine and juice industries to run steam boilers and produce electricity.  I was only involved at the front end of the concept phase, but I visited an active facility and was quite impressed.  However this was certainly no backyard cobbled together equipment and may only have worked so well due to the scale of the operation.  One thing that stood out to me was the extraordinary lengths they had to go to at the collection site, after the anaerobic bacteria had their way, to address corrosion of the collection systems.  Something to do with an acid byproduct, if I recall correctly (hydrogen sulfide leading to sulfuric acid perhaps?).  Something to be aware of before starting to collect cow poop in any case...

As regards the efficiency of ribbon burners with forced air burners, or multi-outlet burners as I prefer: I ran forced air multi outlet burners with natural gas for over 10 years in my glass furnaces and glory hole.  I easily reached forge welding temperatures in the inner chambers and never had more than a couple of inches of "dragon's breath" at the doors and exhaust ports (and I could easily reduce that as well by adjusting the air/gas proportion).  Forced air ribbon burners can be every bit as efficient as NARB or NA burners with more conventional flares.  It all depends on the burner design being optimized for the size of the chamber and target temperatures.

For the OP, in addition to use of larger propane tanks, if you want a project to work on to develop your design skills, and greatly improve your forging experience and forge efficiency, I strongly suggest you look into forge door design.  There is a distinct lack of good, efficient, easy to fabricate and robust to use forge doors for most forges.  I personally use a cobbled together sliding door that was made of Kastolite, but a counterweighted lifter on rails or 4-bar linkage would be much better.  Something with a floor pedal so it was easy to open and close with hands full even better.  Careful design to avoid bleeding heat out thermal bridges and warping or otherwise distorting the steel framework definitely worthwhile as well.  This is a safer and more practical target for your budget, tooling and experience  IMHO.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...