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I Forge Iron

Forge HELP


RToons

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Coal and CHARCOAL are two entirely different fuels and make different fires. You can NOT expect to learn how to manage a CHARCOAL forge fire by watching youtube videos of people managing COAL forge fires.

That's like trying to learn to fly a helicopter by practicing in a biplane. Both fly but they're birds of a different feather. 

Frosty The Lucky. 

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Well you kept saying "coal grill"; I've never heard of such a thing as coal flavors the food in a bad way.  Even coal fired kitchen stoves kept the coal and food separate.  So it made me wonder if you were using the terms coal and charcoal interchangeably---some languages do you know and tack a modify on it to indicate wood based or stone based. For example: Spanish and carbón. German Kohle and HolzKohle.

So you may notice the "if" in my recent comment.

You still need fuel under the workpiece and I would go up as I explained.

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NOT sure where this discussion on charcoal is coming from. I have not used term "coal grill" or CHARCOAL in any of my comments/questions. I went back and read my entries and responses and NOT until yesterday were the words charcoal used and NOT by me.

Let me be clear on my objective and understanding of the great responses I have received.

I want to use LUMP COAL purchased at a store which I break into ~1x1 pieces to fuel a forge to heat metal to hammer into rough shape of a knifes. I am utilizing a small pickup  break drum ~6"round by 5"deep that I plan to cut to allow metal to be inserted into and covered by hot lump coal embers. As the metal is hammered to grow in length I will have a forge that allows the metal to be placed in and covered by hot embers as needed to heat metal where needed.

I feel you are NOT giving positive feed back but for some reason criticizing me as a novice individual. I am attempting to build a knowledge base of trial & error with POSITIVE feedback from skilled individuals.  All positive feedback is appreciated but NOT feedback to show how one has knowledge I lack.  I know some individuals express themselves in a negative way without realizing they are doing it. Please be positive in comments as you assist me in my forging attempts.

 

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Sorry RT; I probably confused two separate threads.  However I would mention that if you want private tutoring that only applies to your particular issues;  you probably shouldn't ask on a public forum that is seen world wide.

I feel you are not understanding the need for a good thick bed of burning coke between your blade and the tuyere to scavenge the O2 in the blast.

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RToon, don’t be offended by anyone here. I’ve been following this thread myself and have been a bit confused myself. From the pictures you posted and some of the descriptions of you problems, it looks and sounds like lump charcoal in the brake drum forge you built. I don’t think anyone is giving bad advice or negative feedback, they are just trying to interpret what is going on and help based on that. 
Out of curiosity what type of coal are you using? Bituminous, Anthracite, sub bituminous, or lignite? They behave differently in the forge.


Just my observations,

David

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4 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Sorry RT; I probably confused two separate threads.

Thank you Thomas,

That is the type of constructive input I am looking for and need.  Would 3" base of hot ambers and 2" above steel be enough or should the base of hot embers be thicker?

Just about all videos on youtube show a coal forge with no way to have metal inside ember's which Frosty made it clear the metal should be resting on a bed of hot embers and covered by same.

3 hours ago, Goods said:

From the pictures you posted and some of the descriptions of you problems, it looks and sounds like lump charcoal in the brake drum forge you built. I don’t think anyone is giving bad advice or negative feedback, they are just trying to interpret what is going on and help based on that. 

I purchased  100% All Natural HARDWOOD LUMP charcoal-there is that word charcoal ? See photo below

LumpCoal.gif

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4 hours ago, RToons said:

Not sure where you are going with this? I am utilizing lump coal broken into ~ 1x1 nugget size and NOT charcoal.

 

1 hour ago, RToons said:

I want to use LUMP COAL purchased at a store which I break into ~1x1 pieces to fuel a forge to heat metal to hammer into rough shape of a knifes.

 

22 minutes ago, RToons said:

I purchased  100% All Natural HARDWOOD LUMP charcoal-there is that word charcoal

I hope you can understand why some of us are finding this confusing and having trouble giving you the best advice.

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I hope you can understand why some of us are finding this confusing and having trouble giving you the best advice.

I can see that now. My mind skipped the word charcoal and only saw LUMP and put out the idea I was using LUMP Coal. I will be more specific to aid in a clear understanding of what my objective is and what products including fuels I am utilizing.  Thank you for pointing this out to me.

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No problem.   We just have to make sure we're talking about the same things before we can suggest a path forward.  

I have never personally forged using charcoal, but many people on here have.  My understanding is that charcoal does best with a side blast air source, a deeper fire than coal, and more of a trench rather than a bowl for the fire.   Those with more experience than I have can help you sort out the details, but the JABOD threads that are pinned to the top of the Solid Fuel Forges page have lots of good information for setting up a quick and cheap forge that does well for charcoal.

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RToon, I prefer using bituminous coal myself, but I have a very limited supply. I have access to anthracite coal, but given a choice I use the same lump charcoal you are buying over anthracite. The advice you’ve received on using the charcoal is dead on. Deep fire, with a low slow air supply, if you’re not getting enough heat (with you steel covered by coals) apply a little more air. That should help with the fireflies also.

You may even want to setup a way to stop the air supply while you’re forging the steel, to save on fuel. Charcoal continues to burn for quite a while even without any air supplied, no need to worry about it going out on you. (You can’t do that with anthracite, it will go out without a constant air supply.)

David

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The depth necessary is based on the size of the fuel and the rate of the blast as it's a balance between surface area to burn up the O2 and the rate of O2 introduction.  So if your forge will heat steel without scaling it in the forge; you are doing well.  If it's not heating then you need more fuel and/or air. If it's heating and scaling then you need more fuel and/or less air.

So in general electric blower blown forges need a deeper fire than hand cranked blowers or bellows.  Charcoal needs a MUCH softer/lower blast than coal.

Notice the "carbón vegetal" on that bag too.  Charcoal has been used as a forge fuel for about 3 times as long as coal has. (Cathedral Forge and Waterwheel, Gies & Gies, mentions Coal being introduced for forging in the high to late middle ages.  Note it wasn't used to smelt iron from ore commercially until Abraham Darby did it in the late 18th century!)

Buzzkill has the basics listed.  You may consider us very fussy about terminology here; but a major function of "jargon" is to allow people to communicate very specific things to others involved in the same craft.    So people often ask questions about "steel" but there are hundreds of alloys often requiring different temps for forging and heat treating; also "coal" differs not only by type: Bituminous/Anthracite; but by where it was mined and often by where in a specific mine it comes from.  Difficult for someone starting out with a simple easy question that turns out to be a complicated mess of various factors they may never have heard of.

If we get out of hand, we get a talking to from the Moderators or even Glenn!

And: Welcome to the confraternity!

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