jlpservicesinc Posted April 29, 2020 Author Share Posted April 29, 2020 Often times.. and what I see a bunch today is this.. People make forge welding sound exotic or troublesome.. that it is a mystery.. It really is not.. It is simply get he parts hot enough.. Even in a gas forge where there is excessive scale, just run the temps up higher and it will still forge weld.. The largest problem is "Someone not knowing what they are looking at".. Gas forges until you get a real grasp on what is going on can indeed be a little more tricky because there are a few things stacked up that can hinder a forge weld. With this said. A coal forge has its one pluses and minuses.. So here are some major points.. The steel does not have to be spotless before attempting the weld.. it ideally needs to be in metal to metal contact with "WET" flux on it.. If the flux looks all crusty it has oxidized and it needs to be removed, so block brush it and reflux. ( The flux needs to look wet). Arkies idea with 2 strips of metal laying ontop of each other is a decent starting point if one just wants to weld strips together.. I have used this as a demo with wiggling the bars together.. they will stick when at welding temps. I personally think your skill set is good enough that you can do scarfs as show in the videos and can forge weld.. Turn your gas pressure up to about 15 or 18lbs some forges like the pressure as high as 20lbs.. Ideally you want to get a scorching heat inside the forge. I don't wire brush my chain links usually if I am in a rush and there is ample stock thickness... You don't need to scarf at all if you really want to take the easy road.. Just bend around and overlap the same amount as what you would have scarfed. One of my pet peeves with gas forges is the distance you need to hold pieces while taking a heat.. so most will just drop the piece in there and then have to grab it again with tongs. If you are having a hard time judging color and temp.. Take a long bar 2 or 3ft long about 1/8" in diameter and forge the end flat.. Curl the end of handle into what ever nice form you want. Us this to touch the portion that is at welding temp.. It will stick to the piece when at welding temp.. I'd use 3/8" stock as ti's a great general size.. 1/4" will loose heat way fast. Chain is one of the easiest things to learn on because everything is held in position.. " YOU GOT this".. CGL post photos of the failed rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 If I can get a picture to load, I will. I've been having so much trouble that I haven't bothered lately. I'll turn up the pressure. I'm kind of freaky about it because I've heard so much about how hard forge welding is on a gas forge. However, I believe my forge will have no problem reaching these temperatures. I made a little thing with a piece bent at the end so I could move the ring into the forge far enough and pull it back out. I didn't know about touching the piece with something smaller to see if it will stick to it until this morning. Thank you for your encouragement. I think I can do it too. It's just figuring out the pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Do you have a tray of clay kitty litter to keep the flux off the floor of your gas forge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 No but I was reading where you mentioned that somewhere else Thomas. I can get some. And I would just set the piece on top of the kitty litter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 I would try to suspend it over the kitty liter; but of course I am generally welding billets with handles on them...and lots of flux. I wonder if a "sacrificial" tray without the litter would work for small items that will be in contact? (Hopefully without it welding to the tray before the scale builds up thick enough to prevent that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 At ESSA they used sacrificial bricks on the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 CGL, i am not really great at welding but i do get more success than failure now. One of the things that really helped me was do not hit the piece like you are forging it. Press the material together. Do not let the hammer rebound is the best way i can say it. Once you get the welds down, you will start looking for things to weld. It is quite fun i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 21 hours ago, BillyBones said: Once you get the welds down, you will start looking for things to weld. It is quite fun i think. Billy, I haven't done it yet and I'm already thinking of the possibilities But I'd be perfectly happy with some chain that I made myself. Thank you guys. I appreciate every bit of help y'all are giving me. I hope when I get a successful weld I can get a picture to post because I'll be eager for y'all to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 it is not difficult, nor is it outside the realm of anybodies skill. Forge welding is a basic skill. Sadly it gets a bad wrap because people don't really understand it and then share their failed attempts in dismay. Crank the heck out of the forge.. the metal will look wetted.. Take your little wand and touch it to the metal.. It will stick nearly as soon as you touch the link. IN a gas forge you can set it so the metal won't reach melting temp but for the time being before you get dialed in, you might want a little hotter fire.. A sacrificial brick on the forge floor is a great idea. Pull it out of the forge pretty quickly (move fast you don't have much time) and hit is on the weld on the anvil a nice light quick snappy blow the first few times.. Then move over the horn. If it did not weld the temp was not even.. In 15minutes I could have you welding like a pro.. Anhow.. "YOU GOT THIS".. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Here is a chain that's a work-in-progress...don't know how long it will finally end up. Right now it's 4 1/2 feet of 3/8", incl. the hook. Often, just to warm up, I'll make a 3 link set to add to it (one is in the picture). As it gets longer, I use a support next to the anvil and drape the heavy end on it while I add pieces. Some of the welds are not the best, but then again I don't plan on pulling logs or a car with it. Mostly for the fun of making chain! (Yes, Jennifer, I have done the destructive testing as in your video and once in a while a link will fail...see! I pay attention to your work!!) BTW, using a coal forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 ANY propane forge that makes scale it is not tuned properly. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Frosty; how do you run a neutral/reducing atmosphere in the forge after you have shut down the gas and before it cools to non-scaling temps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 I think I have become a member of the Forge Welding Club! Got 3 links together. I cranked it up to about 18 psi. Got them orange, cleaned and fluxed. A little too much probably at first. Watched the heat and the flux bubble. I stuck my little wand to them as Jennifer called it Haha. It was amazing when it actually stuck. Pulled them out and tapped 2 or 3 times. The flux sqishing out was pretty awesome too. Cleaned and fluxed again and set the weld. They are a little wonky and the welds didn't completely blend all the way around, but they are at least there. That is one of the coolest things I've done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 Right On CGL.. Fantastic.. I knew you had it.. Kinda of crazy that little wand isn't it.. They look great.. The 2 tops ones look really good, the bottom one the open/scarfs were a little off. You can walk the scarf area next time but hitting off sided over the horn.. It will move the link scarf over.. YEAH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Arkie, that there is purrty.. I like it all and the end hook.. Have you decided how long you going to make it? You are inspiring me to finish the chain I started at the fitchburg forge in meet. I think I'm going for 8ft or so.. Once you get to a certain length it is easier to do one link at a time if setup properly.. If you guys are interested I will forge up a set of chain makers tongs with the side ring for holding the chain.. Interested and enough examples of chain shown.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Doesn't have to be that little either! I was using Christopher Thomson's blown ribbon burner forge at his shop near 7000' altitude to work a piece of 2.5" sq stock. Another smith repositioning their piece slid their 3/4" rod against my piece and we had to use a sledge to get them separated! No flux involved! CGL an old black bowling ball makes a decent improvised item if you want to forge the chain for a ball & chain for someone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Thank you! I certainly wouldn't trust this to pull something or hold anything very heavy up. I've been inspecting it since I got it done and taking notes on what I can do better next time. I had to stop in the middle of the process because the tree trimmers showed up to dump a load of mulch, so took a minute to get back up to heat. It didn't take me near as long to do as I thought it would either. I'm happy as a little lark Now there's an idea Thomas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 Arkie inspired me to go take a photo of the chain from the comp and the next fun is to make it longer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 CGL I have some cast iron 99# dock weights if you need a more accurate version.... I once made a ball&chain as a retirement gift. I used a bowling ball and inscribed it with all the problems/issues/projects the retiree was involved with so they could appreciate their escape! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Very nice Jen. I'll keep adding links as a sort of "chain" of progress to see how they look over time. Thomas, I can think of a few times where those dock weights would have come in real handy for that purpose The tong demo would be great Jennifer. I didn't see the ad on to your post till just now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, CrazyGoatLady said: I'm happy as a little lark As well you should be great first links indeed. If I can find mine, I'll give everyone a good laugh a them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Thanks Irondragon! I hope you can find them. I'd like to see them and I promise I won't laugh. I love looking at others' work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 CGL, nice work. Like the idea of adding links as your skill improves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 CGL, wonderful job on the forge welded links! Much better than a lot of mine. You go, girl!!!!!! 4 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said: Have you decided how long you going to make it? Jennifer, probably until it's too heavy and cumbersome to work with! Your chain is "purty" also, but then again look who made it. Beautiful might be a better description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Thank you Billy and arkie for the positive feedback. I appreciate it so much. And arkie, I think your chain looks great. Looks prettier than mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Congratulations CGL, Now you are part of 'the Chain Gang' , LOL. An easy way to test if they are welded (when they are single) is to 'Bounce Test' each link. If it bounces on the Anvil face and makes a high pitch ring, it is welded!! Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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