Show us your forged chain.

[jlpservicesinc]

This being a basic skill set is a wonderful building block.   

All chain can be artistic as well as functional for the usual tasks.  

Please share your chain making exploits, trial, tribulations and successes. 

[ThomasPowers]

Forge welded or just forged?

[jlpservicesinc]

Just forged..   there are a lot of neat designs  Kinda figured it would be a repository for info and design. 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Should include a link to that german chain making video; it had a bunch of ideas.  I have a crowd control chain that is not forge welded and of light stock that I would work while waiting for the forge to come to heat at demos. I will see if I can dig it out and get a picture of it.

[JHCC]

14 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Should include a link to that german chain making video; it had a bunch of ideas. 

The YouTube link to that video has been made Private, and I haven't been able to find it elsewhere. A real shame.

[jlpservicesinc]

A lot of the videos have been removed or made private.   The last knife forger in Britain was removed and then put back in as an advertisement. All the footage has been cut. 
 

 

 

 

[JK Scotland]

JLP - that's an excellent video (the middle one "chain making 3links, adding to...")

I've not tried forge welding yet -- this might be a good beginner exercise. Or are you making it look way easier than it is?!

[jlpservicesinc]

Chain making is a great beginner skill.. It helps for a newer smith to see the right temperature and it keeps everything is the right place for the weld to have the best chance of success. 

If you are doing it right, it is very simple and straight forwards..   There are a bunch of videos out there on making chain now..  LOL>. When I started there were only 2..  I have a really old one from back when i was retired which is unlisted..    I did it for another forum I belong to.. 

I think if you can forge the links to the proper shape before welding that your success rate will be decent..   If you were close I'd give you a lesson and youd be surprised just how easy it is, then you could also see how it applies to other things which for many are more complex.. (drop tong method for example). 

I  have a few videos listed that I have gotten feedback on that the people said it really made a difference in their forge welding skill set. 

Chain,  and the blacksmith basket for people who do not have a consistent forge weld is another decent one. 

[CrazyGoatLady]

I think I may try this today. I'm going to forge some little S hooks for the doors on the rabbit run. I don't like the plain Z hooks in there so I thought I'd add a little blacksmithery to them instead. That won't take long so I may give the chain a go. Thanks for posting this up Jennifer

[lazyassforge]

Several years ago the Saltforkcraftsmen blacksmith club in Oklahoma “sponsored” a chain build for the Abana conference. We requested links and chains from blacksmiths and welded them together into a long chain. We took it to the conference In Flagstaff I believe and completed the assembly there. I wish I could remember more but with all my meds, I can’t remember many details. I remember we hung it on one of the tents and carried it into the gymnasium for the auction. My shop was the main assembly area so I got my share of forge welding chain links. I remember there were a couple Damascus links and one club sent in several yards of chain. Missouri club had cut out letters attached to their chain spelling out Missouri.  Does anyone else have pictures or memories of this?

 

Thanks, Bill D. 

[jlpservicesinc]

I'd love to see some photos as well..  maybe hit up ABANA home office..  Maybe archived somewhere.. 

[lazyassforge]

Diana says she has some pictures and info somewhere! We are having a discussion as to whether it was Missouri or missippi that had their name on their section of chain!

[JHCC]

[jlpservicesinc]

John, that is a great photo.. Was a bunch of fun.. I think that was the coldest day of the year. 

[CrazyGoatLady]

So I tried it.  I got the shape done pretty easily. Got the scarfs to line up good. But I didn't get a forge weld. I think I wasn't getting a high enough heat? Or lack of flux. I have some 20 mule team but I didn't bring any out with me. Don't know because I've never tried to forge weld before. But I will try again

[jlpservicesinc]

What were you running for fuel pressure?   Using every item you can to your advantage is a good thing, if you are by yourself. 

It's different if you have someone there to show you and hold your hand till you get your sea legs. 

[CrazyGoatLady]

I think I was around 10 or 11 PSI. I'm not sure where I should run it. It was nearly white when I took the piece out. After watching your video again, the fault could possibly have been in the scarf. But that's just a thought 

I'll take some 20 Mule out tomorrow and try it again. If I fail, I'll try to take careful note of what I'm doing or not doing fir that matter. 

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

"Or lack of flux"

Contrary to common belief, "FLUX" is not glue. Flux is the liquid to carry impurities of the surfaces away from the bonding joint. Flux can be ground up red brick, ground up bottles, garden Lime, so many things. At welding temperature, they all are the carrier of the impurities in a liquid state.

Coal forge, it is possible to fire weld with no flux. Sometimes it is possible in a Propane forge, but generally the scaling requires a Flux.

Welding is possible at a temperature above the critical temperature, with sufficient pressure.

Neil

[CrazyGoatLady]

Thanks Neil. I appreciate the good information. I'll do some more studying up on the subject because now I'm determined  

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

Sometimes, the harder you try, the harder it is to achieve. Some people say "You can only weld in the morning". That is because a Coal fire is cleaner, earlier in the day. The body also needs to not be tense. Try a smaller hammer, don't hit too hard. After awhile, you can hear by the sound of your hammer, whether your weld stuck or not. Do lots of small welds, like welding chain, to get comfortable welding.

I spoke to a man who lives near me, he has a business of making chain. mostly big chain like what is used for 'Anchor Chain' for large vessels (freighters, Navy Boats, aircraft carriers, etc.). He said that after he bought his first 'Chain Making Machine', about a year later, he noticed that some of his employees were becoming strong with the drink. He had taken away their pride in their product. The pride of being able to control their ability to make 'the Welds'. I can't remember what he did for a remedy, but it entailed a different way of making their finished product, with more responsibility for the employees.

When we hosted CanIRON VI, one of our Demonstrators did a weld for a blade, between two pieces of heated angle bar, in a post vice. No hammer blows. He was using a propane forge, with a little flux. K.I.S.S.

Neil

 

[ThomasPowers]

Billy Merritt used to weld billets using a wooden hammer handle to set the weld. He could also make good welds at temperatures I would consider low for forging of some alloys!

Solid state welding has 3 major factors: Cleanliness, Pressure and Temperature. Max any of them out and you can get a weld pretty much regardless of the other two.

Cleanliness: Vacuum welding occurring even at outer space temperatures

Pressure: Explosive welding or galling of surfaces like with bolts

Temperature: Forge welding

If you are interested in this topic may I commend "Solid State Welding of Metals", Tylecote; to your attention.

Fluxes vary greatly in how "active" they are at forge welding temps.  A lot are mainly O2 excluders and work best on plain steels at temps high enough to melt scale.  Not a great choice for high carbon steels that burn at higher welding temps, Borax works well for those. High alloy steels that have recalcitrant oxides may require an even more "active" flux like those containing THE HIGHLY TOXIC FLUORINE!  (If exposure to fluorine doesn't scare you; please don't use such a flux. Proper handling of it and the fumes produced require some caution in a person!)

[jlpservicesinc]

Viton orings will emit Fluorine gas when burning. Which to me has always been funny because they are O2 safer at elevated pressures. 

[arkie]

CGL, to help you get going with your forge welding, let me make a suggestion.  Let me say that I am no expert on forge welding, but this is what helped me work my way up.

Rather than starting with trying to forge weld chain links, try something a bit simpler.  Get some flat bar stock, scrap mild steel will to.  Something on the order of about 1/4" thick by 3/8" or 1/2" wide and 3-4" long will do. Clean the welding surfaces of rust and grime.  Heat both together to about red to melt the flux, sprinkle on your Borax and bring both to welding heat.  Immediately tap the two fluxed surfaces together to seat the weld and repeat.  No need to worry about scarfs for these practice pieces starting out.  The small, flat surfaces will let you practice much easier and inspect your welds.  Scarfs on round stock often defeat those starting out with forge welding and the flat surfaces will build your confidence.

[Goods]

For me, while I still am not good at it by any means, it seemed much easier to learn    from doing faggot welds on 1/2” square. The 1/2” material would hold welding heat longer, and didn’t have to worry about alignment. Of course, had to make sure it was clean of scale before closing the bend (and have to put a scarf on the  correct side) but I still find this to be the easiest weld for me. I’ve had some difficulty doing the same weld in 1/4” square (to build up mass for a flux spoon bowls). I had to move my anvil closer to the forge and work fast to avoid dropping below welding temp.

I’ve also learned that using a lighter hammer works better for me. You don’t really want to deform the material, just set the weld. Once I’ve done two rounds of welding to set the weld and blend the edges. I move back to a heavy hammer or heavy blows to forge it to shape. (Using forging blows too soon, may put shearing force on the weld interface.)

All of the welds I’ve done successfully used 20 mule, but I’ve started cooking it down and grinding it. Don’t know that it really makes a difference, but when it’s not bubbling up forming a shell, I can see the coverage better, and it’s not all over the floor and forge when I’m done.

Only my experience,

David

[CrazyGoatLady]

Thanks for all the help everyone. While in the process, I thought it might be better to move to a lighter hammer, but I think it was a move too late at that point. I tried it till I had this gnarly, blistered piece of metal which I was sure wasn't going to work anyway. I'll try the 20 mule team and I'll move one of my smaller anvils closer to the forge.

arkie, that might be the way I go to try welding. I was looking through some videos this morning and that is a suggestion a lot of them have too.