Brake Drum Forge Help: The Sequel

[CrazySmithy]

Hey again! It's been a long time since I've been on here. I posted a while ago asking for help with a brake drum forge that wasn't getting hot enough. Or I wasn't using right. I got a lot of good help and advice, but I quickly learned it wasn't quite built right, so of course I go on a hiatus. 

Now with all this time on my hands due to Covid-19, I went out and started building a shop with a chimney so I could stop adding smoke damage to the porch roof. 

I disassembled the old forge and grabbed a 55 gallon barrel. I cut a door out of it, a chimney hole in the top and a big hole in the bottom. I set the brake drum into the hole on the inside.

One of the things I learned is that I needed a grate in my tuyere pipe to help keep it clear (Who woulda thunk?) So I made one out of two 1 1/2" x 2" strips of steel "slotted" together to make a tall "X" that I just slid into the pipe.

So, I went out today and lit it up, and started working on a simple J-hook. Not long into it though, I needed to completely reset the fire to get it hot again. I had to do this many times. It took me 2 1/2 hours to make half of a J-hook out of 3/8" x 3/8" stock.

I might not be doing it right, I might need to adjust it, but I'm done messing with the bottom blast design.

So I am thinking about drilling a hole in the side of the barrel and just shoving a pipe in to make a side blast forge. Would that work better? The way I see it is then the pipe isn't really getting clogged, because it isn't moving down into the airflow. 

So with this, is it better to have the pipe blowing directly into the fire, or is it better to off-set it to circle the air around the fire? 

 

Also, here are pictures of it. I need to make a proper bracket for the blower still. Also, the bottom wall of the barrel is 6" tall. Is that perhaps too tall? I can get more pictures if it would help. 

Thank you guys so much for your help!

Em... Apparently it's not uploading the photos on the phone, I'll have to get on the computer. 

[Glenn]

We need more information or photos before we can offer detailed advice. 

Depending on your fuel you may have clinker on top of the grate blocking the air flow.  

Converting to a side blast forge is just a matter of inserting a 3/4 to 1 inch pipe through the side wall of the drum and about the width of a house brick above the bottom of the tuyere, and to the edge of brake drum.  You will need to adjust to the differences in the size and shape of the fire ball.  Watch for the clinker and how it builds up.  Just let the fire rest for a minute and hook  the clinker out, push the embers into the void, add coal and go.

[CrazySmithy]

Okay, here are the photos. 

And what about water cooling the pipe? I know how to make a sleeve over the pipe, but how do I supply the water to the sleeve? And as far as coal does, I don't want coal dust do I? I want the good solid small chunks in a big pile, so there's no dust stopping the air from getting to the coal, and so I can just push my work pieces into the coal without having to "Find the sweet spot".

[Glenn]

No reason to overcomplicate simple. Just a 3/4 or 1 inch black iron pipe pushed from the edge of the barrel to the edge of the brake drum.  If in time a portion of the end of the pipe burns off, push that much more into the barrel.  

I have used coal dust (fines) as fuel with a 2-1/4 inch open tuyere, no grate.  Just add a little water to get them to clump together.

If you are concerned, screen out the fines.

Find the sweet spot of the fire and build a shelf or other device to lay the metal to be heated on at that level. You can use brick, or metal, or what ever is handy, as long as the metal can rest on it at the proper height.  Heat your stock, and when you need to reheat, you will already have the proper height to lay the metal on.

In order for all this to be fun, realize that there is no right way, just the way that works.  Do not overcomplicate simple.  The metal does not care how it gets hot, just that it gets hot enough to move under your hammer.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Check out the solid fuel forge threat stickies

[ThomasPowers]

Does you coal coke up well?  If so you can start the fire with breeze and add wet fines to the outside to form a shell that will coke into chunks.

My brake drum forge was my primary billet welding forge for several years so they can work.

[CrazySmithy]

Thanks Glenn, solid advice. As far as the fines goes, to let it clump up in water and then let it dry? Or throw it on the fire while it's wet?

And also, as far as coke goes. Is coke the really light burned up kinda "crispy" coal? Pretty much like charred wood or charcoal? And Thomas, you're saying that you basically cake the coal pile with wet fines and it'll dry into small coke chunks?

[Goods]

Put the wet coal dust clumps on the edge of the fire. As the coal dust cokes it will form solid chunks of coke. Same thing happens with with larger coal forming solid shelves and walls of coke around the fire.

Enjoy,

David

[CrazySmithy]

Hmm... What if I made "Coal dust cubes" with an ice cube tray? Just an idea.

 

 

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

Mix the Coal fines with water into a dry mud. Squeeze them into hardball size. Add the balls to the outside of the coal pile on your Forge. Soon they will be coking up, just like Coal should.

Sorry, I forgot organized Sports is shut down. DON'T USE a Bat on the Hardball's LOL

Neil

[ThomasPowers]

Like others I store my fines in a water filled bucket. To use I take a scoop of them with my forge shovel and hold it against the inner side of the bucket to let excess water drain away and then apply that scoop full along the edges of an already burning fire.

Yes.  Coke is to Coal as Charcoal is to Wood: heated up until all the volatiles are driven off.  Coke made in a forge was called breeze by some smiths in some areas. 

[CrazySmithy]

Ah, okay, gotcha. That's super helpful, thanks!

[Glenn]

Fines are put under water to help them stick together.  Scoop out a hand full, squeeze out any excess water (or let it drain from the side of a shovel) and put it on top of the fire.   The water is just a way to hold it sort of together and to keep the dust from blowing around.  You could just put a small amount directly on the fire dry, but you will find that the dust gets blown around by the air and heat coming from the fire. 

Usually you can control the size of a fire with the amount of air you use.  No water needed.  The fines are put on wet in small quantities to both get rid of the fines, and to control the growth of the size of the fire.  Saves using water alone to sprinkle a fire. 

Save back some of the dry fines (dust) to use as a punch lube.

Now the lump coal I put on the side of the fire to coke up and move it into the fire as needed.

Charcoal is the wood with the volatiles (smoke etc) burned off.  Coke is the coal with the volatiles (smoke etc) burned off.  Looks sorta like black popcorn. 

You need to get to the forge and put this information into practice. Once you see it actually work, it starts to makes sense. Relax as there is no right way to do things, just what works for you.  No one is going to ask you how many heats that project took and then offer to pay you more. They just want the bottom line, out the door price.  Same with the anvil you use.  They do not offer more than the asking price because you used xxx brand, yyy brand, or a improvised anvil.  They just want the bottom line, out the door price.

[CrazySmithy]

Oh, okay, that makes a lot of sense Glenn. I'm about to go get the tuyere built, so I should be able to implement all this tomorrow.

[Glenn]

What tuyere on a side blast forge?  It is just a pipe shoved into a pile of solid fuel.

[ThomasPowers]

Yup that's the definition of a tue pipe AKA tuyere.

Tuyere: a nozzle through which air is forced into a smelter, furnace, or forge.

Origin:  Late 18th century French, from tuyau ‘pipe’.

From the online UK Dictionary "powered by Oxford"

[CrazySmithy]

Okay! So I went out and lit it up today. I turned it into a side blast over the last couple of days.

It worked, but only barely. And I think I know what the problem is. I don't think I have enough air volume. It wasn't getting hot enough, and unless my steel was in just the right spot, my steel would actually cool down. 

So, naturally, I took off the small hand crank blower and switched to an electric blower. It had about the same results, just less tiring.

So I hooked up a Rigid shop vac on blow. 

Lit it up like a Christmas tree. 

It was too much air, but I could adjust it a bit, and it got plenty hot enough. Though I think I was burning through coal like crazy. Has that just been my problem? I need more air? 

Also, I have a video pre-shop vac, but I don't know if I can post it. I'm trying though.

 

[Glenn]

Flame should not be forced out the top of the fuel.  From the video, you need more fuel and less air.  Throw a gallon bucket full of fuel on the fire and cut the air back until you get a workable fire ball.

Flame down sot make the metal hot.  The metal in contact with the embers (fire ball) make the metal hot.

[CrazySmithy]

The problem I am having though is that it is so deep that the air is only reaching the bottom, it can't get embers past where the tuyere pipe is, even with more coal on the fire. I can't seem to get enough pressure to push the oxygen up where I need it.

[Glenn]

Then tear the whole thing down and look for obstructions.  Start with the blower. Does it feel like it is putting out sufficient air ?  Then move on to the air delivery pipe, the T, the  tuyere, grate, etc. All should be wide open and unobstructed.

The 55 forge uses a vehicles 2 or 2-1/4 inch exhaust pipe.  The blower is a squirrel cage fan about 4 inches in diameter with the outlet about 2 inches in diameter. Way too much air but you can put in a valve or spill some of the air before going into the pipe. The T section was welded in place with adequate room for ash collection below the T.  Fired the forge up and it would not burn right, like it could not get enough air to the fire.  I checked and double checked everything. Still not enough air getting to the fire.  Then I found the problem, a slight oversight resulting in an obstruction.

Removed the obstruction and 

The 55 Forge at operating temperature, in fact welding heat.

Just because we have been forging for a while, does not mean we always get it right. (grin)

With a side blast forge, you do not have those problems.  It is a straight pipe from the blower to the fire.  3/4 or 1 inch pipe should work.

[CrazySmithy]

There wasn't any obstructions, and I used 1" pipe for the tuyere. But I don't think my blower is pushing a sufficient amount of air.

What is the "Sufficient amount" of air? Is there a way to measure it? Also, does your fire usually roar? Rather then just... Purr I guess?... I just don't think I'm moving enough air.

[ThomasPowers]

Yes it's easy to measure; a sufficient amount of air is when the forge works right!  What is sufficient for your forge almost certainly would not be for any of my forges. Current events contraindicates it; but having someone who knows what they doing having experience with forges looking at your system in person is a whole lot better than trying to piecemeal it over the internet. Too many factors all working together or against each other.