Grouser Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Hello, Santa brought me a new forge,. I have been using a home made brake drum forge, and it sufficed for the last year. But two forges are better than one, right? Lol As near as I can tell it's a portable rivet, lever operated blower made by Champion. At this point I'm missing the attachment that holds the lever, the cement bottom is gone, and the dual pulley that runs the ratchet drive system is frozen. Currently soaking with BP blaster. Assuming a couple inches of grout will do to cover the bottom of the bowl. One of the arms that grab and spin the flywheel is missing, but I think it will still work if I can get the pullies freed up. Not sure how to route the belts thou. I see similar forges with a half gear dive system, but little info on the style I have. Any help would be appreciated. Looks close to this,,, broken link The ratchet drive has a patent number 316789. If I don't get it in operating condition,,,, the wife is gonna put it in the living room with a plant in it,,,,,HELP lol Happy new year,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Pictures or it never happened. Just plain old clay with some play sand mixed in will do for "claying the pan" Seems to me there is a thread on one like yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Do not use a cementitious product to "clay" the forge--use the KISS principal and the old clay/sand mixture that has been standard for a century plus. If you can get hold of Kroil, it seems to work better than PB blaster...and doesn't stink as horribly. It is a bit more expensive but worth it. As was said above, it'll take some photos before you can get good answers. There were a lot of variations and we can't see what you have to work with. Assuming that you have most of the goodies, getting things going shouldn't be hard. Some of these used a cast iron segment gear in the train and those tended to break and be discarded: If that's missing on yours, skip the restoration and head toward a modified rebuild for the blower (you'll NEVER find a replacement). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Kroil is a very good penetrating oil. I use it all the time. If it's not available in your area a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid works just as well and cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouser Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 the two pullies that are stuck circled in black,,, where can I find the correct clay you all speak of ? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) I use a shovel and dig it out of the ground. You can mix it one part clay to two parts sand, but I just use straight clay from behind my house in my jabod forge. You could also use 100% bentonite Kitty litter and sand mixed in the same proportions but you have to hydrate the clay and let the water evenly disperse throughout it. Clay out of the ground just seems much simpler to me. Pnut Edited January 2, 2020 by pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Or if that is too much work, a pottery supplier. A community college near me tosses hundreds of pounds of mixed clay bodies left over from throwing sessions. So check with local schools, or teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazyassforge Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Grouser, I have a pump handle Forge similar to the one you have. When you say the pulleys are locked up, what do you mean? I believe they should be solid to and turn with the shaft. Is there a tapped hole in the center of each pulley? On mine there are two leather straps which attach in that area to the mentioned screw holes. I don’t see the bracket that attaches to the other end of the strap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 There's a real good bed of clay in a creek where I used to live; go to the abandonded HD store and then at the right rear of the property head out at about 2 oclock direction and go down hill to you reach the creek. Bring a couple of 5 gallon buckets and a shovel. Oh, it's in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Hey what do you know Thomas, that's where I get my clay too. Hope to see you there sometime. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 We are both in the USA; it could happen! My daughter found a projectile point in that creek. I had a potter looking into it as it was very nice clay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouser Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 On 1/3/2020 at 12:42 PM, ThomasPowers said: There's a real good bed of clay in a creek where I used to live; bee right there !! lol On 1/2/2020 at 2:00 PM, lazyassforge said: When you say the pulleys are locked up, what do you mean? I believe they should be solid to and turn with the shaft. Is there a tapped hole in the center of each pulley? ,,,,the twin pullies meneed to spin on the shaft and the hub connected to these pullies transmits the power to the big wheel, thru the ratchet system. did that make sense?. I, of course, am just guessing. I'm new to this so you are the experts. a video of yours in action may educate me as to what is needed to get her going. yes there we two leather belts hooked to the pullies. I would love to be wrong and find a simple solution,,, but at this point, it's not gonna work as-is. thsnks for your patience. On 1/2/2020 at 3:55 AM, pnut said: I use a shovel and dig it out of the ground. You can mix it one part clay to two parts sand, but I just use straight clay from behind my house in my jabod forge. I'm a visual person,,,any video tutorials you can point me to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazyassforge Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Grouser, If you search YouTube for ”Canedy Otto Forge restoration “ I believe it will get you a video of a similar mechanism that shows pretty clear. On mine I use a leather strap for the back and forth straps but I wound up using a strip off a round baler belt. By the way, where in USA? If you happen to be in Oklahoma I possibly could show you one of these forges in working condition! Hope this helps, Bill D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouser Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 On 1/4/2020 at 9:26 PM, lazyassforge said: If you search YouTube for ”Canedy Otto Forge restoration “ I believe it will get you a video of a similar mechanism that shows pretty clear. PNW,,,,,, I got the pullies broke loose!!!! Mounting the blower and trying to design a good handle shape for the lever. thanks for the offer to demonstrate your forge. Careful,,,I take long motorcycle rides in the summer....Oklahoma ain't to far,,,,I rode my 1977 Shovel to Florida and back 2 years ago. I will try and post s video shortly. I'm technically challenged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouser Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 Is this what I need for this forge? Does it go at the bottom under any clay bed I install, or on top, set in the clay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Not needed you already have a tuyere with a clinker breaker installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouser Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 made this grate from a pot bellied stove insert. thinking the holes are wrong,,,your thoughts on how to make it better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just guessing at size, you have 18 holes about 3/16" dia. That's a total of about .49 square inches of open area or the equivalent of a single hole about 3/4" dia. Even a small 1" pipe feeding that thing has about .75 square inches of open area and people usually go bigger. It's definitely quite an air choke point. Add to that some pesky ash trying to clog your holes and yea, I think you need a bit more there to keep the forge happy. I'd lean toward 3/8" or possibly bigger holes but don't know the whole story so that's just a guess. Part of this is experimenting also..everyone's system and preferences are a bit different...maybe drill out the center holes a bit and give it a try. If that doesn't seem to be enough, drill out a few more or enlarge them a bit more. experiment. And...that galvanized corrugated material at the back is bad news. You've apparently already burned off some of the zinc which can cause extremely dangerous fumes. Zinc plating in a forge situation is a big no-no. Look up "fume fever" in this site and you might find some horror stories of people who got nailed with sickness and headaches. I'd pull that and either replace it with uncoated steel sheet or find a way to strip off the zinc coating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Put in a drawer or box. You don't need it in that forge. The clinker breaker is the grate and the clay will make the ducks nest fire pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouser Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Kozzy said: That galvanized corrugated material at the back is bad news. I haven't had a fire near that tin yet,,,,it surface rust. was going to burn it off either while forging or with a blow torch. thanks for the heads up 3 hours ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said: Put in a drawer or box. You don't need it in that forge. The clinker breaker is the grate and the clay will make the ducks nest fire pot. can you expand? it has a drop thru bottom I'm planning on having a metal bucket under to catch the klinkers. and if never seen one with the clay in place,,,, would like to reference a picture of the find product if you can help. thsnks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Good Morning, I am getting the feeling, you don't understand the concept of Galvanized Sheet Metal. It is deadly, one of our members was doing a little job with some Galvanize material. He is no longer alive on this Planet. DO NOT BURN OFF THE GALVANIZING!!! DO NOT USE ANYTHING THAT IS GALVANIZED ANYWHERE NEAR A HEAT SOURCE!!! You must read between the lines and use a HUGE Case of 'Common Sense'. Just because it was cheap, doesn't make it GOOD to use!!! Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Zinc, galvanized, and coatings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 What fuel are you using? What are you using to blow air? Without that information you are basically asking: "I have a 4 cylinder engine in my pickup truck, is it too small?" You can always redrill the holes larger; perhaps just the middle and the first ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouser Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 1/10/2020 at 10:13 AM, ThomasPowers said: What fuel are you using? What are you using to blow air? Without that information you are basically asking: "I have a 4 cylinder engine in my pickup truck, is it too small?" Sorry for the lack of details! I assumed everyone was reading my other posts about restoring my newly aquired coal forge,,,,,,silly me!, Its a champion #41 lever operated blower. One member says I don't need a grate at all,,,,the clinker breaker is the grate,,,,,,,getting mixed input on claying the bottom also. Some say do it some say don't,,,,wtf confused.I don't want the breaker to be consumed, so I figured I needed a grate. On 1/10/2020 at 1:53 AM, swedefiddle said: I am getting the feeling, you don't understand the concept of Galvanized Sheet Metal. DO NOT BURN OFF THE GALVANIZING!!! DO NOT USE ANYTHING THAT IS GALVANIZED ANYWHERE NEAR A HEAT SOURCE!!! got it!!! thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Claying: That's easy. Cast iron pan, it must be clayed. Pressed sheet steel pan, it isn't strictly required...but..in either case the claying is what gives you the proper shape for your fire pit area so that you aren't simply heating a mound of fuel in whatever way it wants to burn itself. It's not a camp fire--it's a controlled high temperature forge and having a shaped clay "pot" is part of that control system, directing the air flow through the fuel and the fuel mound in a shape which burns most efficiently. I missed the notion that this was the earlier mentioned forge rebuild also. Just a tip---you're lucky here if a reader remembers something 5 minutes ago let alone in another thread so it's worth clarifying, even if it feels a bit redundant. Should work fine without a grate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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